|
PS, the Sun is a bit part player in all this. It has already covered the Herc crash with a full page article. I suggest you start with the Defence Committee. If you have information of shortages the HCDC has a duty to act. I believe the committee is sympathetic to the very real difficulties faced by UK armed forces at the moment.
The Govt is sensitive to mounting casualties, witness the imminent "rebalancing" of "stretched" troops in Afg and the recent announcement of 100 armoured vehicles bound for Iraq. I recommend you try HCDC first. The committee has a wide ranging remit and can question defence ministers at length. Might be more effective in the long run. |
the thread has gone quiet but i might as well put down where abouts we are...or not!
today's or possibly tomorrows paper should have a story in about XV179, so watch this space. our dearest friends at the MoD can according to our lawyer provide funding towards the inquest process. we apply and suprise suprise we find out yesterday that we are not going to recieve funding. i am awaiting to find out the reasons but that will not make it any better. all we want is legal representation at the inquest to ensure it is not an open and shut process done in a day thus leaving the families without answers. we only want to find the truth about our lost loved ones. it would appear that the quest for the truth is something that the MoD seem very uncomfortable and think that they have scuppered our attempts. do they not realise that this goes against them and makes them look even more worried about all that we're doing....more suspicious. honestly guys, should the worse ever happen to any of you do not think that your families will be taken care of. no, we're treated like a dirty secret something to be ashamed of. anyway, the lawyer has written to blair and browne, mod and we've done the press release...so watch this space. |
Chappie,
If you have a copy of the press release may I suggest you put it on this forum. Always send your letters recorded delivery. The other thing you might want to try is getting the BBC to fax them for you. That should get a reaction. Good luck to all of the families, try not to get upset by the MoD, they know no other way. |
Chappie,
Please check PMs |
MJS
With this campaign, where the loss has been so great, emotions run high. Singling out individuals is not always useful, there are always two sides to every story. However, I think a relevant point has been made by chappie in regards to the broader issues relating to the military justice system. Remembering, that the MOD have the responsibility of overseeing and progressing this system and 'perhaps' keeping up with other countries. Next of kin, family, the tri services, BOI's and courts are all faced by restrictions and limitations placed on them during their encounters and roles with the military justice system, some more legitimate than others. Next of kin and family usually feel the frustrations personally and more deeply and are the least empowered within these agents.
If anyone is interested have a look at the following site http://www.defence.gov.au scroll down and you come across the BOI into the Sea King crash. It shows dates and advice to those concerned to seek counsel etc, contrasting the MOD's site information into the hercules crash. There is also an article 'Government to Strengthen Military Justice System', this is part of an ongoing review process which has resulted in many changes. It is of course not perfect but progressive and includes next of kin in a greater participatory capactiy. |
KAM, sadly this is the UK, we lack a maturity of Government that constantly seeks to hide behind secrecy. I have total admiration for any relatives that decide to take on the Govt and the MoD. If they did not, nothing would change. Well done for challenging the system, I am sorry you have to do it, but I am sure you will succeed in the end.
The Australians actually provide legal representation for the relatives. Today we learn that The MoD have denied something similar to the relatives of those who perished on XV179. |
Chappie, please check your PMs for a letter response.
Best of luck, Spruce |
Radio 2 ( I know ) this very afternoon ran a piece about the up and coming 'Federation' which is about to flap its fledgling wings. It was interesting to hear that anonymous 'Senior Officers' had expressed backing toward this enterprise. Shame they didnt stand up and were counted now !!! It is very easy to comment in your memoirs about a 'tragic' situation but would have shown great honour and understanding to have raised the issues there and then. Some would call it spineless.
5d2d |
well, what a day! i want to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has initiated a reply to my correspondence. it's such a shame that our government are unable to lead by example, they simply have to follow the example set by their asset. our armed forces.i am more than aware of time constraints placed upon individuals, that is something i know all too well about! excessive demands on individuals attention is not exclusive to those of us in large organisations...i should know. i am far from superwoman but i am a mum, wife, campaigner for foam, involved in the truth process for inquest, military families press officer (inadvertantly!), nurse, daughter, daughter in law and friend! i may bang my fists, even throw my toys out of the pram, this is not aimed at individuals, but at a process and government that needs to dramatically alter it's way.
thank you for advice given today. i had already sent letters as a recorded delivery (most of them, not all!). this has not been enough though. nonetheless, i sometimes get too emotive and potentially cause offence to those involved in the process unwittingly. this is something i do not intend to do, i guess my pain and frustration spill over, especially when actions by the organisation i niavely thought would care for the interests of my family and my brother show that there is only an interest to protect themselves, not us. it feels that as our loved ones ceased to be, so did we in the eyes of the MoD. i get hot headed, which is fruitless, but human. moreover, i realise that the hurt and loss i feel is not exclusive to myself, but is far reaching and is felt by the wonderful RaF community left behind. i don't know if it's the nurse in me , but i want to just make this better. i do not want anyone to feel the pain that i feel, i do not want anyone to feel the fear that bob felt. there are those of us that just want answers to questions, we don't stop wanting to know just becuase the BoI has concluded. let's just get this out in the open, why does this all have to be done behind closed doors...... today i heard that us, the families of those who have lost their lives in iraq (british) have won the right to force the government to have the inquiry in public! |
Chappie,
As people have said before, your drive, tenacity, passion and, most importantly, your humanity set an example that our leaders, both political and military, would do well to emulate. Flipster |
Just so everyone knows how things work with the “government” that nige, chappie and others are campaigning against, and while “Yo…Bliar!” has trotted off to Washington for more instructions from his master’s voice, this from the latest Private Eye
At his recent appearance before the Commons liaison committee, Tony Blair admitted that he had never bothered to hold a vote in cabinet on any issue. It now seems the lack of dissent among his senior ministers may be even worse than we feared. A story reaches us that Des Browne, who is currently Defence Secretary, was bold enough in his first cabinet meeting to voice disagreement with the prime minister on some matter. His remarks were heard in stony silence. Then, while the meeting was still going on, Browne found little messages being passed to him discreetly by colleagues. They asked him what on earth he was playing at. Questioning Tony’s judgment, apparently, simply was not acceptable behaviour for a Rt Hon Member of Cabinet. |
So much for democracy !! It just further emphasises what I have felt for a good many years: We live in an elected dictatorship, not a democracy. Just as the eastern bloc was not communist, just grossly inefficient state capitalism.
Never mind, as long as sufficient chav programmes are produced for TV Tony knows he can continue ad nauseum. |
lockheed martin profits up by 26% caused mainly by US defence spending...! need i say more? that just says it all. shame it's not because of british spending!
i'd also like to take this opportunity to let you know that the campaign has a very distinguished supporter. air marshal sir baird and lady baird have signed the petition that i sent to them. i hope this will inspire those of you that doubt if you should lend your name. please realise that together our voice becomes one and becomes strong. to that end there is no choice and our cause has to be heard. i value and treasure every individual signature that i have been priviledged to have on the petition. thankyou. |
From where I sit
It is so sad, that justice in this world depends on who you are, and how much money one has to fight.
I think we would have seen a very different attitude, if some one high up had a son on the flight. I have had association with the RAAF since 1957, and have watched the slow but steady progress in these sort of matters. Whilst our system is far from perfect, it is getting better, and would hope that these concepts, would continue to improve. We have long ditched the WW2 ideas, and I hope that we will continue to progress, because when you are talking about peoples lifes, futures, welfare and a desire to see the right thing done, then no effort is too much. The problem as I see it, is that the people making the decisions, do not know crap from clay, about what is needed to get the job done, with the maximum safety and efficency. I really hope that these events, will lead to a wholesale change of attitudes and thoughts. I have become very good friends with a RAF Wing Commander, who retired early, because as he said, change for even the better, so hard to make happen. So we have yet another problem, the guys who want to go forward, are being held back in their endeavours. So what happens they walk. The only thing that will make change, is constant pressure from the field. DUTY HONOUR COUNTRY I wonder where they have gone in this situation. Regards Col |
microlight AV8R
You posted: Just as the eastern bloc was not communist, just grossly inefficient state capitalism. It is becoming increasingly apparent this week that the Blair years have been a period of jaw-dropping government incompetence, on a par with the most notorious corporate accounting scandals. When John Reid describes the Immigration and Nationality Directorate as “inadequate in terms of its scope, information technology, leadership, management systems and processes” he was conducting, with disgust, an audit of the Home Office. But his analysis holds good for much of the rest of Whitehall. Only now is the depth of the problem becoming clear…… …… Similar horror stories can be picked up in the bars of Whitehall from an increasingly bewildered and demoralised Civil Service. The Ministry of Defence is apparently running on autopilot, with minimal leadership from Des Browne, its nominal Secretary of State. His aides have been struck by the extent to which he reads every single word written for him in speeches, complete with grammatical mistakes…. …….. The sheer amount of money earned by the public and squandered by the government promises to make a compelling theme for the Conservatives: that incompetence, rather than sleaze or spin, was the true hallmark of the Blair years. On the other hand, the same narrative will help Mr Brown to declare “year-zero” when he arrives – it was all Blair’s fault – presenting himself as the agent of change. A maelstrom of blame is slowly sucking in mandarins across Whitehall. Jobs are being lost, executives sacked, new disasters exposed. The Home Office permanent secretary and the chief executive of the NHS have walked the plank, and more will follow. But for the last nine years all departments have had two leaders in common: the Prime Minister and a Chancellor who liked to be seen as the true author of domestic policy. These days, of course, Mr Brown and his henchmen are claiming no such authorship. Just as new Soviet leaders liked to denounce their predecessors – even if they had worked cheek-by-jowl with them – so we can expect Mr Brown to present himself as a champion of reform, a Whitehall radical liberated at last to sort out the government. |
well i was right, today i learnt who reads pprune from afar. thankyou for the letter. i will be replying in the very near future. i am not placated by your letter. as nice as it is, it still is full of nothing more than hot air and platitudes. predictable really, but sad.
|
You'd be surprised who reads these pages! Of course, they'd deny it and say they never read this 'tosh' as we are a load of whining has-beens, long out of the saddle. I can remember some senior officers saying as such and then referring, almost verbatim, to some posts/threads!!
Nonetheless, it is a good way for 'them' to assess the undercurrent within and without the services - unless, of course, they forbid serving personnel from posting under the auspices of 'possible security implications' (eg Lyneham recently). This is patent bolleaux as 99% of posters are acutely aware of the security sit. I wonder what the real reasons were...hmm??? In the meantime, "Bravo" Chappie - who knows where this campaign will lead us next? One thing for sure is that this Gov't is very sensitive to media pressure and we do have some good friends out there. They must be very aware of embarassment we could cause and this Gov't could really do without any more scandals - just hope they don't think you are going to go away quietly? |
i wonder why it's so hard to tell the truth?
please rest assured that this campaign has not gone away. things are lulling away the support continues and grows. i have not given in and i have not left you. |
is there anybody out there?
chaps and chapettes are you still there? i checked the petition today. 2740 on line signatures! wow! i am taking steps to hand it in. i will of course ensure that it is high profile,as it is important that the message is out in the public domain so it freshens their minds. i do hope that someone, who can help, will read this and allay my fears.
today there is some media attention regards the apalling shortages faced by the armed forces. i have learnt that there has been mention of the foam campaign. i last heard that it was being fitted. operational in august. well, it's here, where is the plane? the hercules has been mentioned in the sun and the express. i was wondering how true this quote was."The MP's were also alarmed that the MoD might not be fitting protective systems to hercules transport planes.ten servicemen died last year when their plane was shot down in iraq. despite years of warnings, a life saving suppressant foam used by the US was not fitted. defence secretary des browne said the forces were stretched but not over stretched!" is there any truth in this? i hope that now the pressure has relinquished the pledge to fit planes has fallen by the way side and is now null and void. the MP's in question were the cross party defence select commitee. i really hope that this has not been the case. i understand that there is no way that the government will admit to the truth, which is that the armed forces are clearly overstretched. all because some well placed senior officers deny the fact does not make it true. that's like saying i am incredibly clever, i can say it all i like it does not make it true. in my limited correspondence with the senior personnel i was told.." we do everything possible to ensure that our armed forces have the best protection to enable them to carry out the many vital tasks that they undertake. we take the safety of the armed forces very seriously and most certainly do not see them as expendable assets. if the operational environment requires additional protection, then it can be-- and is--provided." if the mod programme is cancelled this means more empty words. i know that this may seem all the same to some people out there, but this is a genuine question not an attempt to restart the merry go round. the campaign continues and i am busy but just don't wish to annonce all that i am doing. please help. take care, stay safe:) |
Keep the pot boiling Chappie!
Has anyone in the know got an update on the progress of the foam mod? FJJP |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 10:25. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.