USN ace/Congressman convicted of bribetaking
 

Eight-term Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunnigham admitted in US Federal Court to taking bribes. Cunningham, a Vietnam-era USN F-4 ace, will be sentenced later.

Stupid ba$t*rd! What a way to end one's career. Everything he did before is totally wiped away.


Idiot! Got what he deserved, but Je sus H. Chri**, he could have made a ton of money legally and he pulls this.

BH

This has clearly upset you a lot. Do you know him personally?

We put people on pedestals and it is hurtful when they fall off and let us and themselves down. Politics is a dirty business and has been the ruin of many a good man (I think I've just quoted a song?).

What a prat. What a waste. It doesn't wipe out what he once was and did though.

Commiserations.

CM

CM,

No, I didn't know the man personally. It just p.o.'s me because a) he's a congressman and not suppossed to do that. Nice example for the masses.....(I know, I know, I'm simple...an politician being crooked, how unorginal!) and b) because of what he did criminally, he forever does, IMHO, pretty much negate what he did in combat. I believe that every history book mention of Duke Cunningham will read "corrupt politician" and his aerial achievements will get a footnote, if that.

Ah well, he's over 18 and made his choice......

Your right. He made his choice. Of course he was a sailor.

What's your weather like? It's snowing here in Yorkshire!

Until today, it has been chilly - temp at freeze point. Today is overcast, muggy and about 50F.

Snow?! No thank you, sir!

This is the coup de grace for Duke. He was doing plenty to sully his record long before that. He's basically as mad as a box of frogs:

1. Before a group of elderly cancer patients in Alvarado Hospital, Cunningham made obscene remarks and gestures. After he said the defense budget was the lowest in 25 years, a member of the audience, Charles Cotton, a WW II veteran, commented that it was “not low enough.” The embarrassed audience was shocked when Mr. Cunningham replied by giving Mr. Cotton “the bird” finger gesture and said “f--k you.”

Cunningham, who underwent prostate surgery in August, compared prostate cancer treatment to gay anal sex before the same group of elderly cancer patients at Alvarado Hospital. Cunningham said no man would enjoy prostate cancer treatment “unless he’s Barney Frank.”
Cunningham then made an obscene gesture in reference to prostate examinations. The reference is to fellow Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), an openly gay Congressman.


2. Cunningham challenged U.S. Representative David Obey to a fist fight on the House floor: “I do not like to be threatened [having legislation challenged], and if the individual [Rep. David Obey] wants to threaten, we can handle that real good. . . . If the gentleman wants to do something he can just come right over here.”

Quotes:

“Was she [Paula Coughlin] totally innocent in this [the Tailhook Scandal]? I don’t think so . . . If you have clothes that are scant, if you have a past that is not professional, then that’s going to add to the problems.” [KNSD-TV 2/1994]

“I have flown an F-14 over this Capitol with a 20 mm gun that could shoot 6,000 rounds a minute. I could disintegrate this hall in a half-a-second burst.”

“Now we need to take a look at who befriended us. . . . While the Serbs, since before King Peter I, had been rooted in democracy, the United States has supported the Croatians and the [Bosnian] Muslims . . . .”

The list goes on...

Just reading the New York Times article. He was taking the pish! Among other things:

1. His DC residence was a 42ft yacht loaned to him by a defence contractor.

2. Contractors bought him a Rolls Royce

3. They bought his house from him for around twice the market value.

4. They paid a $200,000 deposit on a condo for him

5. They paid for his daughter's graduation party.

6. Paid capital gains tax for him (presumably on the house sale among other things)

He's owned up to $2.4 million so far, but the investigation is ongoing and prosecutors have not ruled out further charges.

It would also appear that there are some people who demonstrate that he was a bit of a chopper back in the glory days (and if you read long enough, you will see they were able to answer the "boathouse at Hereford" questions)

http://dukecunningham.org/phorum/rea...=1&i=353&t=353

Blimey!
It's almost as bad as that other bloke who blagged a Govt limo for his wife, takes expensive "working" holidays in the south of France using the company jet, sprung his deliquent son from the clink after he was arrested for D&D, then demanded his own 747!

....and says "Yer know...." a lot with an accompanying smug grin.

And the alternative is?............

If I remember correctly, he was the ONLY USN ace of the Vietnam war.

Sad that his achievements in military service will forever be overshadowed by his poor judgement in public service.

You are correct, Cunningham was the only USN pilot ace of Vietnam. I would also say that his backseater is one, but then I am not one of the FJ pilot community.

Which could add interest to this thread:

should the RIOs/WSOs/Navs be credited?

I would say yes, but would be interested to read other views.

Don't get confused between the man and the myth. There is plenty to suggest that while he was undeniably exceptionally good at waving the stick about (although airmanship may not have been his strong suit, as we shall see below), he was otherwise a waste of rations.

There are even widespread rumours in the USN F-4 community (including members of his Sqn) that his unscheduled dip in the Gulf of Tonkin was brought about due to fuel managment going out of the window while he was fangs-out in the fabled third engagement with Col Toomb, rather than a SAM. The Navy and the Government apparently staged the cover story of the SAM because they needed some good PR.

Now where's me tinfoil hat?

The highest scoring ace in Vietnam was a WSO- Capt Chuck DeBellevue, USAF with 6 kills (4 with Steve Richie, 2 with John Madden). Pilots and WSOs were each awarded a full kill. Willie Driscoll (Cunningham's RIO) is likewise credited with the same five as Cunningham. I've saw the wall at USNFWS once, and both names appear below the silhouettes.

I believe he did run out of gas because he wanted the kill. No arguement there. And I'm fairly sure that one is suppossed to bring one's jet back, but since I wasn't there, I can't honestly pass judgement on his mindset at the time.

And USAF pilot ace Ritchie (now there's a piece of work! Yes, I have had to deal with him professionally. ) supposedly was groomed to be the USAF ace - sitting alert specifically waiting for MiG activity, better maintained bird, missiles, etc, etc.. Still, he did it, as did Cunningham. So, it is tragic to me that Cunningham would betray his oath as a Congressman for $ when he could have so easily have earned large amounts in the private sector.

It must really grip his sh1t to know that the only guy who out-scored him was a Nav! Plus, wasn't Richie grounded as soon as he got his 5th because the headshed didn't want anything happening to their new hero?

quote:
The highest scoring ace in Vietnam was a WSO- Capt Chuck DeBellevue, USAF with 6 kills. Pilots and WSOs were each awarded a full kill.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, you are correct. My question was should the backseaters be credited? The American Fighter Aces Association does not. (Is there a UK equivalent?) That is their opinion and since they are composed of guys who have done it, are they right?

I hold that the guy flying a few feet behind the pilot is just as important to the jet's mission and therefore is entitled. Doubtless, there are those that disagree and I'm interested to hear their opinions.

Depends. How many were Sparrow kills?

When did Randy become Duke?

I have heard that Richie's ego is ginormous.

Worked with Chuck after he turned (F-4) pilot - and a very good one at that. He is an absolutely splendid bloke.

I've mislaid my book on the Viet Nam air war so I cannot answer Washington's question. But in aircraft such as the F-4, where most interception work (especially from BVR) required inputs from both crewmembers, both should be awarded the kills. The larger ego will usually claim them for himself though.

yes it gets worse, apparently he was also a Republican









ok, ok, it was a j-o-k-e


:E

Apparently there was a chap on VF-96, something of a legend by all accounts, by the name of Diego "Duke" Hernandez- good stick, good officer, good chap etc. Cunningham, as a young nugget, decided he liked the name, so he started calling himself that.

Now answer me this. What kind of stroker insists on choosing his own nickname/callsign?

"decided he liked the name, so he started calling himself that"

I don't buy it. Was a Marine, not a squid but I just don't see a culture that would allow it.

Once in prison.....Do you think he'll yell "Check Six!" a lot ?? Talk about getting a Sidewinder up your tailpipe...

West Coast,
Post on another board:

Geek mode on

I've read that Cunningham's original nickname was "Yankee", which he allegedly hated. He subsequently managed to change it to "Duke", supposedly due to his penchant for John Wayne movies?

Also, I'm sure a further F4 WSO was credited with 5 kills in Vietnam, chap by the name of Roger Locher? Certainly got close.He too became a front seater if memory serves.

Geek off

JG, IIRC, Roger Locher got 3. He's best known for surviving 23 days in the jungle before the CSAR chaps recovered him.

Jeff Feinstein was the other WSO to be credited with 5 victories.

Ignoring the political crap: I've had 2 bottles of Medoc and am comin' out fightin':

1. It seems to me in all my reading if you weren't in the weedosphere in Vietnam you weren't in the game. Witness the much higher %ages either KIA or in the Hanoi Hilton- both muds and rotary.

2. Thus the whole "First Ace" scrap back then overshadowed the real flying being done -again by muds et al. And this reflected the subsequent heirachy in the US Forces thru the 70s to the 90s. [And don't even get me on neocons vs the only grunt in the White House...]

3. I've still got Cuntingham's book somewhere buried under Yankee Station, Thud Ridge and the grande dame- Chickenhawk and if ever there was a pointless waste of a tree "Fox 2" is it. Give me "Jarhead" any day over this self-serving crap. He got what his arrogance finally deserved him. That is all -carry on.

4. Markers.

...Oh and I forgot to say:

Have you ever noticed how blokes who give themselves their nickname are invariable tossers. And no one ever gives themselves a crap one.

Whilst it's a shame to read about his fall from grace let's be honest there is nothing in his flying exploits of 30 odd years ago that would in any way necessarily prepare him to be a successful public sector servant. I somehow suspect that the skills required may differ somewhat. I'd heard that whilst he was a pretty good fighter pilot he was also as thick as mince.

I think perhaps my pprune name now seems in need of a change.

Indeed, most accounts I have seen and heard indicated that as an officer he was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard and a general waste of rations, evidenced by the fact that he was initially denied a regular commission (he was orginally commissioned into the USNR). His problem in getting a regular commission was, or course, exacerbated by his admin being so slack that he missed the application deadline.

Of course, one he became an ace, the Head Shed could exactly say no to their new golden boy- PR disaster etc.

"he was initially denied a regular commission (he was orginally commissioned into the USNR)"

When I was in that was the way it was done except for a small percentage, canoe U grads, etc.

And tells a darn good yarn during the Mig Killer debrief at Top Gun.
True, its still there. A recent Top Gun course (the last F14 course BTW) had a glass door etched with their names plus Cunningham's and Driscoll's. An impressive door! Same thing happened to Manfred von Richthofen after a while because the Germans didnt want their hero killed. He argued against this having become bored with being the war hero parading around Germany, went back to the front line and was subsequently killed in action. That is what happens to all the USN guys now.

Archimedes,

Yes, you're quite right, thank you :ok:

Should have that info off pat, I must have read just about every Phantom book written by now!!

JG

During the Vietnam conflict there was not much BVR, as it was against the RoE. And USAF (certainly during the early days of the war) did not have dedicated WSO's. The USAF maintality was that if there was a stick there, a pilot should be sitting there. And even then, if they operate the weapons that score the kill, shouldnt they be credited as much as the front seaters?

Hope the bastard rots away in prison. I really thought he was going to eat a bullet rather than serve the time.

"We will not lie, cheat or steal. Nor tolerate amongst anyone who does"

Cunningham is not a man of honour, it would seem.

Don't lose too much sleep worrying about Duke's pillow biting exploits down the Hershy highway while he is in the slammer. I bet his snake pit colleagues in the ever growing cesspool of of corrupt politicans will ensure that his life in "Club Fed" is not all that bad, after all, when "honest" Jack Abramoff has finished spilling his guts, there will be a few more joining him I hope.

The rescue of Roger Locher did more than set a couple of Vietnam War records.


On May 8, 1972, President Nixon authorized the mining of Haiphong and other North Vietnam ports, together with regular and frequent air strikes north of the 20th parallel. Operation Linebacker was on.

Two days later, the US Air Force launched 120 aircraft against targets in and around Hanoi. Oyster Flight, four F-4s from the 555th Tactical Fighter Squadron flying MiG-CAP, was led by Maj. Bob Lodge, an outstanding young combat leader. He and his backseater, Capt. Roger Locher, were veterans of the air war, both with previous tours in Southeast Asia. Also in Oyster Flight were Capts. Richard S. "Steve" Ritchie and Chuck DeBellevue, who were to become the Air Force's only F-4 "ace" team with five victories.

As Oyster Flight neared the Red River at a point about 75 miles northwest of Hanoi, they were alerted to the approach of MiGs. In the ensuing battle, Lodge and Locher shot down a MiG-21 and were positioning themselves to fire on another when they were hammered by 30-mm shells from two MiG-19s. The F-4's hydraulic system was knocked out, making the aircraft uncontrollable. A fire in the rear of the fuselage forced Captain Locher to punch out while the plane was inverted. Major Lodge did not eject. Since no one in the vicinity saw parachutes, it was assumed that both men had perished.

Captain Locher had, in fact, landed in trees near a MiG base at Yen Bai, north of the Red River, shaken but uninjured. He could not retrieve his parachute, which was caught in the trees, or his survival pack. After a brief radio call, he sought to put distance between himself and the parachute, which inevitably would attract a search party. (His radio signal was received by friendly aircraft, but, since there was no voice transmission, the signal probably was thought to be sent by a North Vietnamese using a captured radio.)

Within minutes, Captain Locher heard sounds of a search party Taking cover in a brush pile, he took stock of his situation. It wasn't encouraging. He had the contents of his survival vest, including two pints of water and a couple of snacks. Rescue so deep in enemy territory--some 350 miles north of the DMZ--was unlikely.

His best chance of rescue was to cross the heavily cultivated Red River Valley, swim the river, and work his way to the sparsely inhabited mountains about 90 miles to the west. The river lay several miles away through forested, hilly terrain. He would travel only at first light and at dusk, living off the land.

The enemy's search resumed the next morning. At one point, searchers came within 30 feet of Captain Locher's hiding place. On the third day, there were no sounds of a search party, and Locher could move somewhat more freely, but living off the land proved to be a greater problem than he had anticipated. It was too early in the season for ripened fruit, nuts, or berries. He ate what he could find, gradually weakening as the days passed. Water was no problem. There were plenty of small streams. There were also plenty of mosquitoes and drenching rains as he inched along at less than a mile a day.

Captain Locher frequently tried for radio contact, with no success. Then, on June 1, three weeks after he was shot down, as he was contemplating leaving the forest for a dicey venture into the valley, a flight of F-4s passed directly over him on their way home from a strike and, he hoped, with radio frequencies open.
Locher's call was picked up. Within hours, a small search-and-rescue (SAR) force was on its way from Nakhon Phanom, Thailand. After the A-1 Sandys were satisfied that they were talking to Locher, an HH-53C SuperJolly helicopter, flown by Capt. Dale Stovall, started in for the pickup, but the SAR force was driven off by missiles and MiGs. Maybe rescue was not possible so far north of the DMZ, after all.

Seventh Air Force thought otherwise. On June 2, another SAR force, supported by fighters, bombers, Wild Weasels, tankers, and ECM aircraft, numbering more than 100 in all, fought its way in. Captain Stovall's HH-53 picked up Roger Locher and returned him to Ubon RTAFB.

It had been a record-setting show. Captain Locher had eluded capture in enemy territory for 23 days, setting a record for successful evasion in the Vietnam War. Captain Stovall had twice flown his rescue helicopter further into North Vietnam than had been done before, earning him the Air Force Cross. All the principals emerged as heroes, but there is more to the story. Combat crews who would be flying Linebacker strikes north of the Red River now knew that eluding capture in that inhospitable land and rescue from Hanoi's backyard were indeed possible. That was a good thought to sleep on.