Medals Returned
 

From MOD press release

http://www.modoracle.com/?page=http:...il.h2f?id=6834

Gist of story: Battle pf Britain pilot attending Memorial unveiling, loses medals (inc DFC)

Medals found and handed in by 'newstand vendor' Mr Hassan Najmi

Very commendable Mr Najmi :ok:, but what is even more praiseworthy (in these times) is the comment attributed to Mr Najmi;

"I am delighted he is to get them back. From seeing the unveiling on the news and the stories told, he has earned them and deserves to get them back. It is because of people like him that we have a good life today in Britain."

:ok: :ok:

PZULBA - Out of Africa

Thats true - but it goes for more than just life in Britian.

Some might not admit it but Europe owes them a lot as well

As a Brit, I was only exposed to the British version of the history of WWII. During my ATC days (that's Air TRAINING Corps) I had been indoctrinated that the Russians were the ENEMY.
When I visited Dresden in 1989, I was shocked by the inscriptions claiming that the Russians had rescued the City from the evil faschists. When I returned to the UK I started reading (and accessing the Internet) I discovered the not inconsiderable part played by the Russians in bringing the War to an end.

I don't underestimate the part played by the Tommies (and I'm no Commie), but I now respect the Ruskies for their Eastern Front activities.

Yeah so respectable. Aside from the loss of 50 years of freedom, they sent all their captive to the gulag where 90% of them died and they raped the german women when they passed through. Ther is nothing wrong with the truth.

Ain't war he.ll

JJ

Punk, you are merely displaying your complete ignorance of history and your infantile prejudices for all to see.

I strongly suggest you read the excellent works of a Mr. Anthony Beavor such as "Stalingrad" and "The Battle Of Berlin" as well as Simon Sebag Montefiores' book "Stalin", before you start shooting off your mouth about the Russians and the Germans again.

Sunfish

Quite right and they are excellent books as is Armageddon by Max Hastings.

It is always refreshing to see that there are sitll people in this world who care and have respect for other people. Whatever their creed or colour.

er Sunfish, Anthony Beevor backs up what Punk says, rape, mass deportations ('the passion of the East') 50 years of enforced communism, mass deaths amongst POWs
- were you reading some other book?


http://www.antonybeevor.com/Berlin/berlinmenu.htm

I thought the Yanks won WW2 single handedly !!!

Yep, you're right.

And accroding to Hollywood they also captured the first Enigma machine 2 years before they even entered the war, thats how good they are.

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quote

Punk, you are merely displaying your complete ignorance of history and your infantile prejudices for all to see.

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:*

Try telling that to my mother-in-law, who as a teenager in Poland was thrown into a cattle truck with the rest of her family and sent to a Siberian gulag, and one of her sisters didn't get that far courtesy of a Russian soldier...........:(

Maple 01

I may be wrong but I think Sunfishes point may have been that the Germans and Russians behaved equally as badly to the others population.

(Back to thread for a monet- nice to see someone doing the honourable thing, all too rare these days, I'm sorry to say.)

Generally speaking, I don't think any nation came off worse from WWII than the Poles. I think we can all agree that the poor buggers got hammered from both sides.:( However, simple arithmetic will tell you where the war in Europe was won and lost, no matter how much the protagonists were b:mad: s.

Re: the Dresden plaque. Let's not overlook how enthusiastic many East Germans were (are) about communism. Almost anyone who knows of such matters would say that the Stazi were a hell of a lot more ruthless than the KGB (post Stalin anyway) and don't forget, their archives show that they had plenty of help from the public.

If we are going to get off topic lets remember that at the outbreak of war Russia and Germany were allies – they carved Poland between them.
Once Germany attacked Russia (one if their big mistakes) it became vital we supported Russia – hence the convoys – as keeping them going meant the Germans were fighting on three fronts (UK. Russia & Africa) – they became a “necessary evil”.
Yes the Germans and Russians (at least many of them) were “not nice” – the Japs were IMHO even worse.

No matter what is said it’s good he got his medals back – all WW2 combatants deserve our respect and thanks for stopping the Germans second attempt at an EU.

Saddest thing I think I’ve seen – War Memorial in Prague – it thanks the Yanks for “liberating” them – the Yanks got there first “liberated” them and then handed them over to the Russians – talk about out of frying pan into fire.

C130 Techie
You may be right, but where as the wartime German generation have been forced to face-up to their actions the Russians never have, especially the way they treated the Poles, who if you discount pinching a bit of Czechoslovakia in 1938, didn't do anything to anyone*

*pedants might want to mention running a right-wing anti-Semitic nationalist government and stuffing the red Army in 1921, but relatively nothing, nothing to warrant the murder of 1/5 of the population

Maple 01

Good point, well presented!

Staying with the off-topic book-recommendation slant, "The Forgotten Solder" by Guy Sajer is a pretty remarkable read with reference to the Eastern Front.

Spin Spin Sugar - yes, it is an excellent book.

The Eastern Front is where Hitler lost the war. The big problem was that Churchill couldn't convince Roosevelt that the Russians were an even bigger threat than the Germans. During the final days of WWII, some surrendering German units even expected the US and Brits to join with them to take the fight to the Russians! Many German veterans still don't understand why the Russians were given so much latitude at the end of the war - the Cold War probably proved them right.

Anyone seen the film 'The Pianist'.

Now that is a hard hitting film showing exactly (Allegedly) how the Polish Jews suffered.

Good on the old chap and his medal saviour, deserve all the praise and recognition they get. I just wish someone would point me in the right direction to my missing GJ medal.

Here is my potted view of Russian history. Russia feared Germany but needed money to fund her economy. They borrowed it from France, the banker of Europe.

Germany feared she would be crushed if Russia invaded from the east and France from the west. Schliffen concocted a plan which had to be executed before Russia could mobilise.

Years later Russia mobilised, Germany implemented the plan and attacked France and Russia.

Russia lost. There was a revolution and the USSR emerged.

Germany lost. Britain invaded northern Russia. USA invaded Russia. The middle European nations invaded Russia.

White Russia lost and the Soviets triumphed.

Twenty years later Germany again threatened Russia so it was perfectly reasonable that Stalin signed the non-aggression Pact as Germany's potential enemies had been Russia's enemies before.

Then we go through my enemies enemy is my friend routine until Germany is defeated. Russia now wants a defensive fire zone and sets up the eastern bloc countries as a glacis.

America sets up an offensive screen of containment through a series of threaties.

From a Russian perspective the west threatens her very survival and the west's economic muscle makes this threat very real.

For the conspiracy theorists, we could surmise that the cold war was a creation of the US military-industrial complex but I wouldn't go down that route.