Rafale/Rafael for Saudi....Yes or No
 

Vibes thread went from an enquiry about the Singapore Air Force to the Saudi Air Force and the purchase (perhaps) of the French Rafale/Rafael as the Saudi next generation FJ aircraft.

I cannot offer any technical comment but perhaps some of the experts out there may be able to put forward some argument as to why the Saudis should prefer Dassault as opposed to BAe who are already well established in KSA.

And guys, let's not let this develop into the usual BWoS sh!t kicking and have some reasonable debate. I look forward to being educated.

Thank you.

E5:ok:

Edited to correct spelling error.

For Rafale:

1) Available now.
2) French. (And therefore less likely to be affected by arms embargoes).
3) Being marketed energetically, and with strong Government support, by people who don't see export campaigns as an unwelcome diversion of effort, and who can ensure that a bid is on time, with credible pricing, spec, and timescales (unlike the Typhoon bid in Singapore, in other words).
4) AESA radar promised.
5) Will have a robust A-G capability before Typhoon has an austere one.

Against Rafale:

1) Not as agile as Typhoon.
2) A half generation behind Typhoon, especially in terms of the MMI.
3) AESA radar is far from production, and in its likely initial incarnation will be less effective than a modern mechanically scanned antenna.
4) Probably more expensive than Typhoon (depending on discounts) and certainly more expensive to operate.
5) Typhoon is the favoured aircraft of the RSAF, and contract signature for the first 24 was very, very close, months ago......

I believe that reports that Saudi has signed an MOU for Rafale are incorrect, and Dassault and French Government sources have denied them. I do believe, however, that, the aircraft is now being looked at very seriously, and that UK support for ops in Iraq may have dealt Typhoon a body blow.

Relative size of backhanders must surely be the most important consideration?

No-one can beat the French at that.






Except Lockheed.


















And Northrop.

Boeing are pretty good too

So we're all agreed.

Better then to bring Sir RE out of retirement to put things straight?

They have to sell Rafale to RSAF because the Iraqi Air Force doesn't buy French for the time being? :D :p

Mmmmmm,

Nothing from the Typhoon cynics yet. Thought they would have been queuing up to tell us what a heap of overpriced overdue rubbish Typhoon is and how much better the French are blah blah.
Thanks to Jackonicko for posting informatively as usual.

From todays press:

" Blair in secret Saudi mission
According to diplomatic sources, Tony Blair and John Reid have been holding secret discussions with the Saudis in pursuit of a £40bn arms deal: Dr Reid has sought to persuade Riyadh to re-equip their airforce with the Eurofighter Typhoon, in whose construction BAE SYSTEMS plays the major role. "

See
http://today.reuters.com/business/ne...&imageid=&cap=
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/forei...579184,00.html

There always something in the press about the Typhoon/Rafale for the Saudi's.

Much as more exports would be welcomed for Tiffie. do we really want an aircraft that capable in the hands of the upcoming IRSAAF? Course we may as well I suppose, if we don't sell them Typhoon the breach will be filled willingly by someone alse.

But if it is UK plc selling them, it isn't really an export, but a second hand lot, isn't it?

:rolleyes:

5206

Also, the French are about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit in KSA. Their great white hope was a Border security package (Miksa) worth 2+Billion Euros and it is well screwed now. Cynical, devious b:mad: s who don't let girlies wear the Hijab :}

Wouldn't worry about it mate!

From several years of experience - it doesn't matter how flash the kit, it's all down to the man behind the controls.