That was presumably why the UAS EFT course used to be 90hrs; the extra training was there to reflect the fact that it was over 3 years rather than 5 months? Why that's gone I don't know. I guess there's meant to be enough provision of IA to keep the effect of gaps in training down, but who knows?

As far as gaps between EFT and BFJT go, I personally had three and a half years between my EFT FHT and trip 1 at Linton, and it luckily didn't cause much of a snag. I can't comment if I'd have been better with less of a gap, but I'm sure some flying experience on holds helps, even if it's just in keeping you airborne.

Quote: "And while were at it get rid of civvies training military pilots and give the jobs back to the boys who know what they are talking about. "

You, clearly, don't!

I hope you will forgive some thread creep, but can somebody tell an old boy why it takes so long to get through training.

The long holds I read about in this forum would suggest that the various training establishments are not coping with the numbers coming in, is this the reason ?

Holds for pilots have been the norm since Gulf War 1, when all the instructors were sent back to the front line, and training was stopped. Holding officers are used by some sqn's to help out in undermanned ops/admin posts. The airforce actually "needs" holding officers to do some jobs it has no manpower for.

Sadly, this means double the time to get to the front line. This doubly penalises the pilots, as they take longer to qualify for flying pay, and exit dates are based on reckonable service, which counts from the end of your OCU.

It has been known for guys to hold up to 9 years!! I had a mate complete 2 masters degrees whilst holding.

People here blame the holds on the final output to STC; they're not opening enough OCU slots, there's not as high a requirement for JPs and they won't release QWIs to 19(F) to help clear the backlog. Which is sensible, because they backlog have nowhere to go anyway :)

Right now I don't know how long you're holding for EFT after IOT, but it's probably still 6 months for BFJT and 6-9 months for Valley, then 6 months for an OCU. There's a horrible wait for METS right now because the restreamees from Linton jumped the queue; but even those chopped from Linton and Valley now have 9 month waits, and it's measured in years rather than months for guys straight from IOT.

Earlier last year, chaps streamed ME from IOT were packed off to undermanned stations for a couple of years as OC GD. Hold lengths were of the "don't call us, we'll call you" sort of length!

Still, holding's not that bad. I don't mind making tea, and your brain doesn't start to rot until you've been drinking solidly for 3 months :}

5 fwd: I hear one of the afformentioned OC GDs is fitting right in ;) Oh, and I managed 20 months between FHT and first trip on BFT :\

PS: I hear brain rot is caused by Conflict: Desert Storm II or whatever it was called!

Current pre-EFT (post IOT) holds are in the order of 12 months, which is great for APOs fresh out of cranditz who don't even know if they're any good at flying until they get to their UAS DE Flt!
Pre BFJT hold is about 10 months, as is rotary. Some pre-METS holding officers are OC GDs indefinitely!
Apparently, the plan is to have one long pre-EFT hold (to try and clear the backlog), and let people progress through the training system with 1-2 month holds in-between each course.
Crazy enough to work?!

USAF Flight Academy at Colarado and the L'ecole de L'air both follow the route of acdemia whilst flying training - ending with a degree. Is that not the best of both worlds?

And didn't the RAF once have a Royal Air Force College which included academia during elementary and basic flying training? A well-balanced 2 1/2 years at the end of which Bloggs would have 'Wings' and a commission as a Plt Off. Slightly more in the way of academics and less pine pole carrying, and it easily have gained degree status.

It's round, it's rubber and it's black. This new invention just needs a name!

Spot on Beagle! A Grad doesn't make a good Officer necessarily. Lets get back to the days of the bright 18/19 yr olds who can be moulded into the ways of the Officer Corps.

Well said Beags, because the circle is round, funny old thing, we find ourselves back where we started. Albeit with slightly less money, slightly less assets and slightly less morale.

God I am far too young to be this cynical but they will keep reinventing the wheel and calling it a "circular conveyance device"

@rse:(

Lucky chap that you are; and my brain's recovered nicely from said rot!

Drop me a PM and let me know how you're coping with the spinning whirly things.

perhaps we need to realise that life in todays RAF is somewhat different to the one anyone expected pre 9/11 we are away a lot more, to places where people shoot at us! Also public opinion hasn`t exactly been strong regarding our latest endeavours. Obviously their is still a need to encourage recruitment, and the UAS is the perfect way to do that. Of course their will be some "wasters" but we will also be able to continue the tradition of employing people of a very high calibre through this system. The fun police are trying their best to take take take from the Air force, it is on subjects like this that we have to stand up to them! Apart from anything else surely a UAS is a good place to go and be an instructor after being messed around on the front line for 6 yrs or so - there is only so much of the desert that anyone can take!

well, are they closing or staying ?

Any more bids????

Going........going............gone.:(

At the risk of causing controversy (after a few beers), I think that that UAS are not overly relevant for that RAF as it stands today. However, I do think that the closure of AEFs would be a considerable loss to the ATC/CCF, who really do form a decent first exposure for modern yoof, without whom, we will dwindle further still...

In alcohol extremis,

MAI24

Rumour has it the "final" version of the report is due out at the end of this month. Where it goes from there - who knows? Will the ultimate decision have to be taken by the AFB?

Thank you AllTrimDoubt for for response dated 20 Jan which I have just read.
I am biased, having benefitted from a University Cadetship in the old days. I struggled to get to my UAS for three years, without a driving licence or funds, and amassed 112 hours, which penalised me to the extent of a 120 hour Jet Provost course instead of the standard 160 hours, after 7 months on the ground.
My UAS time was marvellous, making many lifelong friends, some of whom joined. My RAF time was thoroughly enjoyable and being in the same basic trade I have now over 5000 hours of military instructional hours.
IMHO it would be sad to chop the UAS system. It is also unrealistic to expect students to risk their degree passes by putting extra effort into getting to distant airfields.
JEFTS actually worked very well, as those unbiased enough to visit always confirmed. The product was of a uniform standard with good currency, and future holds were a problem of RAF streaming inefficiency, which was a factor throughout my service career!
The old argument about a degree at Cranwell was lost thirty+ years ago. The time and effort to achieve recognisable academic rigour and acceptance for the degree was not compatible with training then, and I hope still not even in today's dumbing down era.
Sorry about the length of the rant - the subject means a lot to me. Regards to all ex-students of whichever service.

So far we've all discussed the recruitement benefits(or lack of) of the UAS, but what of those who haven't clue of the military when they join in freshers week? By that I mean the guys and girls who have a look, attend the training nights, have a couple of flights perhaps and yes, enjoy the social events which do make the UAS on of the best 'clubs ' to join (or did in my day anyway), but then decide that the military is not for them.
These are the people who will hopefully go on to be employed in promenant positions in industry, business, even politics etc etc. The sort of people who may be called upon to defend the military, or help it in any way. These people will be able to use their basic understanding of how it works and will hopefully also have fond memories of their time there.
I admit that I have not been in the system for quite some time, but I have many friends who are now doing very well for themselves in civvie street, but still love to hear about what's happening in the blue suit world.

UASs + recruiting
 

2 years ago there were 6 pilots flying Harriers who were the products of just one UAS (based at Woodvale). I think, having been a QFI on Bulldogs, that the UASs are a marvellous way of showing potential Officers, not just aircrew, what the RAF is about and the money they cost is well spent.