BEags - merged 2 of them but left the other as it is a specific question and will be answered in due course, I'm sure, by a link to one of the 3000 other threads on the same question from the past.

Thanks, Wholi'!

Wholi,

You're far too clever by half. Are you certain that you were never a trimmer?

:ok:

Duncan

News cometh from On High regarding recruitment:-

All UAS's informed yesterday that Sept 05 recruits WILL NOT be subject to an aircrew medical or any kind of aptitude testing, only the general RAF medical will be performed. Deduce from that what you will.................

I'd deduce that some f*ckwit hasn't worked out that whether it's ten hours p.a or 30, it's worth making sure that the recipient has the aptitude and fitness necessary to be of interest to the RAF at the end of their time at Uni.

Otherwise they might just as well give me ten hours per year. Or my mother in law.

Damnit I reckon I'm gonna fail the eye tests on the medical as my eyes aren't great :{ . Hopefully I can still get into ground crew or something and mayb pick up some flying somewhere :confused:

I'm going for the Sept 05 intake and have been preparing for interviews, aptitude (where possible) etc... is it 100% correct to go there thinking i'm now only subject to a medical? :confused:

More confusion
 

Heard on the grapevine that this grand plan, fully and successfully implemented, is intended to save less than £4m a year. (Oh, and that's before the cost of additional QFIs, and Adv Trg, and actually not getting the savings due to over optimisitic forecasting.) If true, probably not far from cost neutral then.... whilst hacking lots of people off. Cracking plan! :rolleyes:

And from what's been posted, not clear on how this is supposed to link with the great PFI MFTS thingy (of which there seems to be a degree of silence, along with FSTA and other rental agreements) in 200X? :hmm:

Any ideas anyone? Obviously I'm too dim to understand all of this.

S41

PS To potential UAS-studes: it looks great, and go for it- but if you end up at Southampton, pls learn how to run a BBQ! :D

[Edited for typing... ]

Let's not get on to the subject of MFTS and its boundaries (UAS in/out, AEF in/out, Grading in/out, DHFS in/out, left leg....), we wouldn't want to confuse the bidder(s) just ahead of CSD proposals

Sod the business-speak w@nk words - but why should the Mightily F*cked-up Training System bidders be interested in Constant Speed Devices?

A once proud RAF will soon be nothing more than a Rental Air Farce. Still, it'll get a few thrusting tossers promoted onwards and upwards to the stars they all crave, no doubt.

Take it easy BEagle. Retired Air Marshals have to have sinecure jobs to go to after all and private UAS/AEF companies fit the bill nicely.

C&B

There is nothing wrong with a Southampton BBQ...

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

I thought this thread might be worth a bit of a bump. I'm not in touch with any UASs, and I'd like to know how the new system's working; assuming it is! What about all the studes on the old system? Is anyone still doing EFT? Are DE studes still being sent to all UASs, or just the "big three?"

Seeing this quote from earlier in the thread worried me. Many years ago, I had a pair of letters offering me cadetships from both organisations mentioned... I took the one that lands me in the "military aircrew" forum rather than any other, and I do often wonder if that was the smartest move in my life...

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

bin the Reds. Keep the UAS's but open up their remit a bit to include more interested youngsters. Indeed, some pimply fifteen year old rubbing shoulders with someone telling him/her how good Uni is might even have an unintended positive effect on their educastion prospects?

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

Not wishing to open up another pointless chestnut or go off-thread, but I'd speculate that the Red Arrows are the 'cause' of more youngsters entering the RAF than UAS's.

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

The new EFT Sqns don't formally "stand up"* until 1 Apr 06, so it is possible that some UASs still have the DE courses. I suppose my UAS still does even though we have already split, physically if not formally, into UAS and EFT Sqn. As for how it's working, well the PDLT seems to be working fine, but the flying has tailed off quite a bit. It's just as well as I feel really busy trying to work out a calendar for the New Year (how to run a PIFT or Summer Camp for instance), but I should like to think that it won't be only the mad keen new 1st years who will come flying. Of course it could be that my "presence circuits" need recharging and I should offer special incentives to the studes: how about an extra 10 mins aeros per 3 sorties flown before Easter? http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
*Ghastly Murcan expression now unversally adopted it seems; why can't we have our own expressions, and what was wrong with the Bingos and Joker the way we have had them for years, moan-moan-moan ... http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

But why the low fg rate? It's that way here too - and at all other UASs i've spoken to. We've tried portray this interim period to the studes as it is - an effectively unlimited time (no 10hr limit til 01Apr06!) to get as far as possible - and yet our SCT is pretty much all that's keeping the dust off of the ac.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the students lack of flying?

Could it be that the system has already backfired? The aim of taking away assessed flying to bring back the 'fun' element could also be reducing the sense of achievement for anything beyond solo....or are we QFIs just so bored that we've started to read too much into things? :bored:

Maybe we'll be offering free flying at our next Christmas Draw to remind them that it's still a University AIR Sqn!

Uncle G

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

IIRC...
There are no DE's on UAS's at the moment other than YUAS with the foreigners
Next EFT streaming board is in Sept this year IIRC, last one was Dec 05.

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

I think the new system needs a while to run before any serious comment can be made. What is positive is that it is now an organisation which opens the world of flying/aviation to young people- just as Trenchard originally envisioned. None of this we have to get X numbers of people up to OASC or X pilots finishing EFT. Just openly and honestly a ‘look see opportunity’ into flying and the military (and with the lower medical standards etc).


I was on a University Air Squadron and left once the new changes took effect in November. I had an awesome time on my UAS, probably the best 2 years of my life.

Having said that, I think it's obvious that from now on it's all down hill. My biggest issue with the system is the fact that whilst students lose the pressure of 'flying' and EFT whilst at university; even more pressure is put on the senior students to make the squadrons run effectively, now that staff numbers will have dropped from about 6 to 1! Organsing activities, camps, sports, adventurous training; transport, town nights and the list goes on………….

As a senior student you’re likely to be in the last year at university- which often counts for the most towards your degree; consequently you want to do the best you can. Now that EFT does not exist, neither does the mentality of focus on flying (get good scores = streaming) and settle for a 2.2 (pilots degree). For those of us who are not Bursars and faced with the poor intake at OASC, we have no guarantee of a future with the RAF. Therefore attaining nothing less than a 2.1 becomes the new priority, and remaining on a UAS is no longer productive.

The changes for me illustrated here, on the UAS level the changes/downsizing future of the RAF. For me this has a negative impact. I just cant see the future that I originally envisioned a few years ago.
All you have to do is read the comments in the 'why are people leaving in droves' thread.

The UAS system will sadly be gone within the next few years - or redistributed amongst the other services; university naval units etc... It only survived the 2005 chop through the skin of it's teeth.

I cant see how the bean counters can justify the UAS system under the current climate. It is a great recruitment tool- but the RAF doesn’t need to recruit pilots- it will always have a steady flow of wannabes to it's doors without UAS's. What they need to do is focus more on the ground branches like engineers. They should never of changed the system in 1995.

Referring to the comments of students becoming attracted to other careers like airlines BA etc – very true. I’m very sure that current bursars are planning for a career change after 12/16 yrs! But I think ultimately you have to look at the bigger picture of why are high quality students attracted away from careers in Aviation and towards business, finance & IT??
I did leave as I do now see entrepreneurism as a more attractive future.

I hope that UAS’s stay, mine did me very well. I wish that other students will be able to experience many of the opportunities which I have been so fortunate to receive.

But are they financially viable? (political persuasion just wont work, not in today’s climate)

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

ULAS has a DE course running at present. As I wrote earlier, the EFT Sqns do not start, formally at least, until 1 Apr 06.

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

Well, knock me down with a feather! As a former RAF officer, pilot and UAS/CFS QFI, I am glad I am not there anymore. To have to put up with the bollocks that is now going on in the RAF, including this meddling with stuff that is ultimately a drop in the budget pot, just makes me sick.

It pains me to say it but I sincerely believe that the RAF will be in a serious manning/capability crisis within the next 5 years. Yeah, thats apart from the manning/experience problems it has TODAY but which it won't admit to.

Re: UAS 's to close (Merged)
 

Utterly appalled to have learned from an official source that future UAS students "...will never fly solo aeros" during their UAS time.

Just what lunatics are running the asylum these days?

How can things have sunk so low?

Yes...they have

Unless you already had done spin aeros and remain current

:E

Chaps,
With the number of aeroplanes the RAF will have you needn't worry about where all the QFIs are going to learn their trade. We just won't need as many studes or instructors going through the system as pilots.

Problem with that is that, given the very early streaming to rotary or ME, you reduce the pool of QFIs who have the 'stunting and bunting' skills required for Tucano and beyond.

MFTS when it comes in will have 5-10 year's grace of supply to provide ex-mil QFIs with the right experience (provided they choose the 9-5 stability and lesser salary as opposed to more money but crap family life of the airlines.) Most FJ beefers will be sent to Valley or the OCUs. The closer you get to the frontline, the more 'blue-suited' it will get, and quite right too. There is a dwindling number of the qualified people and supply will dictate demand. I believe there was talk of strikes at Shawbury recently from the ex-mil QHIs. They have the skill sets that not many possess now, and hurrah for them.

Whichever company/consortium takes on the problem will face a certain problem in a few years time - where do the next generation of QFIs of the same standard come from? I've got a ATPL(A)(H)IR,FI, VD and Scar, and the latter 2 were as easy as the former. The road to QHTI and FWA2, let alone ISS was a lot harder.

Don't get me wrong - their airships, like us, would like a massive air force, bags of good kit, good pay and quality of life. Unfortunately, the Treasury see things differently. Thank God for the pension.

Next UAS Review
 

I thought this letter, which I have received from Tom Watson MP, the MOD minister, about the review on UAS estate options might be of interest:

Defence Estates rationalisation
 

Thanks for that tg. It complements the correspondence that I have seen regarding my own airfield, except that the Defence Estates message was distintly ill-informed, along the lines of "...some units refuse to move to airfields in different parts of the country ..." (I paraphrase). Since the UASs are so well rationalised already, owing to the pressures that have been on them for the past5-7 years, it is difficult to see some units surviving much longer.
I was a direct entrant in the mid-70s, not having attended university (I was chopped from Chartered Accountancy anyway :-) and I held no brief for UAS for 25 years of my career. Now that I am part of the system I cannot see how it can be so little regarded. Unless the whole of the RAF is in serious danger, that is ...http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/...s/confused.gif

Mag to Grid (UAS)
 

The AEF's at least give some incentive to cadets to see the air force operating (colocated at MOB's), and for those who dont have the ability to fly to at least get a taste of what the RAF is all about prior to serving. In complete contrast the UAS generally harbours freeloaders who, only in recent years have had to perform or be thrown out. They slum around the station, sleeves rolled up, hair down, trying to impersonate aircrew, are hardly ever in the bar contributing to the mess, and when they do they act inappropriately because they all want to go FJ and believe that arrogance is the key. Dont get me on about them at Sleaford tech because as an ex flt cdr they were the bain of my life with their 'when i was on the UAS' stories.

I know I am not going to be popular here with this and I dont mind a slagging but in the big scheme of things the money saved might just go somewhere useful. QFI's will always have somewhere to cut their teeth, producing something a little closer to the front line who has at least completed something military and possibly shown they have some mettle before starting to fly.

Ever tried to get any of your troops on an exped but couldnt because it had UAS students on it, very frustrating. How many of them go OOA, stand on the gate, go on exercises and actually need the down time? What did/do they contribute to the service to get the reward and what do they give back?

Free up the hangar space now........be gone damn spot.

Kevlar on and battle rattle ready.

..... em. It wasn't (and I'm sure isn't) always like that. In my day we spent a lot of time in the bar!! :)

If you're right (and I'm not convinced that you are), where do UAS students take their example from these days?

Maybe a few more AEF instructors conducting UAS flights might do the trick. I wouldn't like to call some of them by their first name!! :ouch:

Rebuttal
 

There is a good spread of generalities there, SLC. It's a pity you have had such a bad experiences of UAS students, but as I said in my last post, I have been converted to the UAS and its benefits, not having been that route myself. Certainly they are gauche and sometimes arrogant, they are youngsters after all. And if they are still like that after a couple of years on the Sqn they are "let go" and they have to make their own way to the Service if they wish. And what's wrong with ambition to be a FJ jock? Many of them, like me, are Good Chaps :-).
It's "bane" by the way ...
[QUOTE=SaddamsLoveChild]The AEF's at least give some incentive to cadets to see the air force operating (colocated at MOB's), and for those who dont have the ability to fly to at least get a taste of what the RAF is all about prior to serving. In complete contrast the UAS generally harbours freeloaders who, only in recent years have had to perform or be thrown out. They slum around the station, sleeves rolled up, hair down, trying to impersonate aircrew, are hardly ever in the bar contributing to the mess, and when they do they act inappropriately because they all want to go FJ and believe that arrogance is the key. Dont get me on about them at Sleaford tech because as an ex flt cdr they were the bain of my life with their 'when i was on the UAS' stories.