To take over from 'The King' one actually has to get airborne, and then into the dip - even in the dark!!!. Have yet to see 'The Wizard' manage that. Still, you can't stop progress:confused: :confused:

The Wizard
 

Flypro

I believe that, despite CURRENTLY not being able to ping in the dark, the Merlin HAS taken over from the King (except the SAR Heros and bag freaks of course).

Duncan,
Best we don't mention the Junglie Mk4 and all it does then. Especially as I hear the Merlin has about the same capability as a Wessex V (though to give it its due, it is maybe a little faster):zzz: :zzz:

My mistake..
 

Sorry - thought we were talking about night dipping. Didn't realise the Junglies did that as well. If they do, they are welcome to it.

Duncan,
Thought we were talking about what 'The King' can do and the (RN) 'Wizard' can't. Still, we must not stand in the way of progress:ok:

... and the junglies as previously mentioned. So basically it has taken over from the Mk6 ASW SK ie in the role of CCD - Combat Cabbage Delivery. Very worthwhile! (although L11 does make the fisheads happy. Shame L11 is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard in a network centric environment. Never mind.)

And why do you class the ASaC operators as freaks? Sounds like a newbie with no appreciation of tactical proficiency.

Oggin.

Oggin

We have nabbed a few of the replaced Mk 6 and gutted them, locked the gear and painted them green - we can now fill all the seats and still stay aloft for 4 and a half hours. Fab! The King lives on, so boo sucks to your wizard!:p

BTW, I can't think why anyone would think of ASaC guys as freaks...;)

Willy-waving about what Link you have doesn't spin my props.
But didn't mean to cause offence by:

a. The "freaks" comment (term of endearment I must have picked up somewhere, me being a newbie and all)

b. Missing out the Mk4 lot - didn't think Merlin was procured to replace them anyway. Yet! (cue maniacal laughter)

Now, about my tactical proficiency - what does "network centric" mean again??

Duncan
 

I cant tell if you are taking the p*ss or not, however being a "freak", I'm obviously stupid as well but extremely well natured, so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As the Bag HWI I did some work with 814 when they brought the Merlin to sea a few years ago. Their use of L11 was a massive SA builder for the fisheads over the Mk6 and they did some good work during ASUW (or should that now be SUW?) serials. The squadron was extremely well motivated and exceptionally well led by their CO and SP/SOBS and therefore were a happy bunch. The pilots loved flying the aircraft and getting involved in the tactics, which is a real improvement over the SK6. Had the Merlin come into service as planned, ie years ago, the addition of L11 to the Pinger repertoire would have been awesome at that time. I just think that with the MOD trying to move towards Network Centricity, L11 will become dated.
Me neither. We were lucky to get L16. You guys should get it as well. What the Merlin needs is JTIDS or CEC added at its upgrade (IMHO). Money, as always, will probably become an issue.

jockspice

Is this arrangement just in place until SABR sorted? Good to see the old airframes not being put to pasture at Sultan and actually being used. Now why couldnt us freaks get some of those low houred airframes ? :(

Oggin
The Mk6s were grabbed to fill the gap while the Mk4 gets a comms and RWR update, which takes a bit of time to fit etc. That way we can maintain same strength on the squadrons while the cabs are away getting the update.
Bloody good idea, this recycling!

Well 'Praise the lord'. Thank your lucky stars that no foreign Johnny bought all those MkV & VI airframes (left in the rain for a year or two) before common sense prevailed.
Merlin/Wizard - don't make me laugh:* :*







Apologies in advance
Written with beer goggles firmly in place!!

The mighty 'Wizard' is a common sight in the skies of Cornwall these days!

Now how many did I see airborne or on the line this week,

1?2?3?4?5?6? probably more

Grounded NO

Flying YES

Better than a Sea King ..... Ask Merlin aircrew if they would like to go back and the universal answer is NO?

When one has flown it and used it you will realise how really good it is.

Still that won't stop the snipes will it. Meanwhile if shaking yourself (and your nose) is what you want... carry on.

Happy days!

The Green Wizzard is having some major serviceability snags....and they've to be ready to sandy side up in the near future...will they end up as Yellow King replacements?

Hurrah
 

Well said Jungly AEO...... the grey merlin is a fantastic and most capable platform for conducting ASW. End of dit...thats it...nothing more.... what else does it bring to the party except for pain and grief?

It is surely the grandest white elephant we have ever had the misfortune to purchase.

"Or is the Merlin simply a good ASW etc platform and not so good as an SH?"

Well, lest you forget, the mighty AAC Lynx was the best Anti-Tank version of an Anti-Submarine Helicopter that Wastelands ever built
:p

Can anyone tell me, how many years the Merlin has NOT been able to dip in the dark?

How much has the Fleet Air Arm rotary wing training pipeline been 'delayed' due to the reliability of the Merlin?

How much does a 'Merlin' Mk4 replacement cost?

Just curious...............................

You really shouldn't go there TC:oh:
Just guessing, but:
1....Has it EVER dipped in the dark - and if so, did the Sonar work?

2....Years

3....Try a Large Squadron of SeaKings. Any Mark will do - they are all capable of carrying out many & varied tasks:ok: :ok:

Guys

No point in willy measuring over the relative merits of Sea King and Merlin. The former was, and remains, a superb aeroplane, and I'm sure Merlin will prove a good replacement in the ASW role. Whether ASW is needed or not is another debate. I recall the argument for buying "only" 103 Merlin ASW (some reduction over the years, eh?) was that 5 would do the job of eight SK2s (at the time). Now there's the real problem - time. Having last worked on Merlin in 1987 (customer side!!) I assume the avionics fit (the heart of the platform) is somewhat dated. Certainly, some common elements of the SKW are a quite deliberate upgrade from Merlin, and if they'd get round to fitting modifications which have been sat on the shelf for at least 3 years, so would the SK4's.

As for Sonics, an old observer colleague once offered to fly a Wx 3 (Sonar 195) against AQS902G-DS (SK) to prove that it was the man / experience that made the difference. No one doubted him. Todays quiz. What system has been PROVEN to give 70+% increase in sonar detection range for £800 (eight hundred), whereas millions (millions) are spent on getting 2%????? And if you had that improvement, would it weaken the case for Merlin's "new" sonics system. Even if it didn't, it would set a hell of a benchmark. One assumes getting inside the enemy's decision cycle by a factor of 70% is what it's all about?

I agree that 'willy-waving' will get us nowhere, it's just that this pig has been thrust on the FAA (I have no interest and little knowledge of the Crab version). It has cost a truly incredible amount of money to produce something that is less capable than that which it replaces.

It bears very little likeness to the original military specification and is years and years late in service and billions over budget.

I understand the political ramifications of retaining the UK ability to produce helicopters at Wastelands - lets just hope it's new FOREIGN owners don't pull the plug!

However, a Sea King airframe equiped with uprated engines/ rotor's/transmission/electronic suite is what the RN really needs. We have over 30 years experience of the airframe, and we know all its fault's - warts and all - to the extent we can probably predict where the next crack will appear!. It fits almost all the ships, and is very flexible in it's role (unlike Merlin). The ASW SeaKing 2, 5 & 6 was only ever rarely used in its primary role. Usually it flew HDS, loadlift, Surface search, SAR - need I continue?. Will the SeaNoff ever do that?

As for cost per airframe/maintenance/spares/servicing etc, well, the facts speak for themselves.



Rant Over

Finge et Fuge (bodge it and scarper)