Treason
 

According to Sky news, British muslims are actively fighting coalition troops in Najaf and Basra. Is this high treason? Is the death penalty afforded to those found guilty?
FEBA :}

FEBA,


No


and


NO.

Whilst obviously bowing to the professional skills of prOOne, see his profile I did a law course in the 70s/80s and there were, I think, 5 cases where the death penalty could be awarded for treason. Two of them which spring to mind were (1) Arson in the Royal Dockyard and (2) Violating the sovereign's oldest daughter - unmarried. Could be the basis for another Blunkett initiative here as I don't think he has announced one for around 36 hours.

Stuk
Then that let's the traitors off the hook. The Royal Dockyards have been privatised and the eldest daughter, who loves dressing up in Navy fancy dress, is too long in the tooth. I suppose they could be sentenced to a course of councelling, a terrifying experience in itself.

stuk

Setting light in HM's dockyards (and associated penalty) was repealed by the Crminal Damage Act 1973, though it took the Human Rights Act 1998 for high treason and piracy with violence to cease to be capital crimes. The HRA 1988 also removed the death penalty for five military wartime offences: Serious Misconduct in Action; Communicating with the Enemy; Aiding the Enemy or Furnishing Supplies; Obstructing Operations or Giving False Air Signals; Mutiny, Incitement to Mutiny or Failure to Suppress a Mutiny (they had a thing about mutiny).

Quite right, this country no longer has the death penalty for any crimes of any description.

Although founded within the HRA's, capital punishment is contrary to membership of the European Union. If we bring it back Capital punishment we will have to leave the EU.

In addition it is forbidden for any member state to extradite a person to a country that will use the death penalty on that individual. That is why Abdul Hamsa or whatever his name is (Mr Hook) will never face justice in the USA!!

:ok:

There was a brief flurry of interest in the newspapers about the fate of captured Iraqis handed over by UK forces to the administration, which has recently reintroduced capital punishment. Apparently, EU states are not supposed to do this, and the Danes in the sandy place are not handing over any prisoners they capture - if they capture any? But the government says that UK forces are not operating under European law. Watch for a legal challenge by somebody at some point!

Easy solution:

Pull out of the EU, ignore any Human Rights guff and bring back hanging!

(If Norway with its high standard of living can survive outside the EU, then I believe we can too)

Training Risky,

Yeah right, and devastate the UK economy inside five years!

My particular speciality in Law is Commercial, although now practising rather more broadly, I do retain certain "relationships."

These are mainly with the larger multi-nationals, the companies who have invested so much in the UK over the past 20 years and kept our manufacturing sector the size it is.
They are here to take advantage of our labour practices, our ethos and our language. They export 80 to 90% of what they produce and most of that goes to Europe, our largest single trading relationship.
If we were outside the EU these folk would scale down their operations and move elsewhere. They wouldn't go overnight, but they would go.
Even being outside the Euro Zone causes some of them significantly increased operating costs.

Norway has a trading relationship with the EU and has a very tiny population, they also pay very high rates of tax! You cannot compare the UK to Norway!

Proone
Are you condoning British citizens fighting on behalf of organisations judged to be the enemy of British forces and killing British military personelle in the process?
I'm curious as to just how British these people consider themselves to be?

FEBA,

Some people choose to fight for what they believe in and what they believe to be right.

I was asked a queston about the law, I answered that question.

It is misleading to portray the Human Rights Act as something that has been foisted upon us by the EU. Britain was one of the original signatories to the European Declaration on Human Rights (the basis for the HRA 1988) in 1950 and British lawyers drafted the wording. (Incidentally, Norway too was one of the original signatories).

prOOne

I suspect you are probably a clever lawyer, an ethnic supporter or an ambulance chaser

If so. in a High Court case, the judge asks you,

"Mr prOOne, if a cat decides to have her kittens in the oven, would you call them cakes?"

What would be your response?

Love many, trust a few, always paddle your own canoe!

Exactly what is an "ethnic supporter"? A leopardskin print truss?

pr00ne

Our biggest trading block is indeed the EU, but our biggest single trading partner is the US. They're not in the EU or the single currency, but it doesn't seem to effect our ability to trade successfully with them.

Where would we be without the Common Agricultural Policy, the Fisheries Policy, the Working Time Directive, the European Constitution/Foreign Minister, Peter Mandleson for God's sake.:yuk:

Pull out of Iraq and bomb France, that's what I say. Oh yeah, and Germany!

buoy 15,

You suspect wrong. I am a Barrister. If you know the Law then you will know what that means.

If a Judge WERE to ask me such a Tom Fool question I would merely ask the relevance of my opinion of somethings name.

BTW buoy15,

If you put a Pizza in your oven, do YOU call it a cake?

The most galling thing about this case is that the two 'UK citizens' filmed fighting in Najaf actually fled Iraq as children and sought sanctuary in the UK. Yet now they have returned there to fight the forces who deposed the regime they fled.
It is akin to a German Jew fleeing Germany in the 30s only to return in 1945 to fight the allies.

These people clearly regard British citizenship as no more than a flag of convenience to be used for its benefits but with no idea of its responsibilities. It would be nice to think that they will face a very long jail term if and when they return, followed by permanent expulsion from the country. But just like those caught in Afghanistan or the Afghan plane hijackers - how likely is that?

OK back to the original question.

As the coalition forces in Iraq are there to provide security at the request of the Iraqi Interim Government (I know you can argue how true that is but I do believe it to be agreed international legal position) then anyone aprehended and found guilty of an offence against said forces would be subjected to the full force of the Iraqi legal system including the death penalty. If they turned out to be British (from whatever religious group or ethnic root) they would still face the legally handed down penalty and the FCO would take normal consular action to try and get the sentence reduced.

Of course if repatriated to UK following stalwart work by the FCO they might strugle to make a living in Aldershot, Colchester, Salisbury, Caterick ........... well anywhere really.

Yeah, but let's try to keep a sense of proportion, shall we. We are talking about two errant people, not a bloody army.

I hope any UK citizens caught on the battlefield in the act of firing upon Allied troops will be swiftly rounded up.

We can then hand them over to the spams who might do us all a favour and send them to Cuba to have their teeth pulled out.

If we bring them back to the UK they will only milk the legal system with the help of shyster lawyers, a la the Afghan hijackers, Tony Martins' burglars, etc, etc...