lightning supercruise
 

Could it??

What was the most anyone saw in the vertical (speed of course silly :O )

And why did I never work on them, Oh yes I know its because I was stuck on the mighty Bloodhound (no A/Fs or pesky aircrew :D :D )

The first two questions only require a reply. :O

mukit

There a great photograph of a Lightning going vertical knocking about, but unfortunatly in a downward direction, taken over a farmers shoulder, the pilot got out ok I believe.

Tony

I recall that well, wasn't that photo much later regarded as being faked? Anyone know?

No it wasn't faked! 13 Sep 1962 and George Aird parted company with XG332 at 100ft on an approach to Hatfield after a reheat zone fire (I think that it was a P1B rather than a Lightning production aeroplane). He just got out in time, suffering serious leg injuries when he crashed through a greenhouse. A passing snapper happened to get a shot of the whole thing - including the agricultural worker on his trusty tractor XAR 358!

Beags

Corrected, profound apologies to all!

no A/Fs or pesky aircrew
 

I would have thought that if a Bloodhound was treated like an aircraft, then the A/F would still only last a maximum of 7 days. Therefore at least every 7 days, an A/F would have to be carried out.

The bonus, no pesky aircrew induced snags.

Yes, cruise at M1.3

I think I have that picky on me hard disc but I dunno how to post photos, I know how to copy and steal em though.

Further to Mr Beagles info, I believe that the fire burnt through his elevator controls whilst the pilot was on base/finals (whatever it's called in the YouKay). I may be wrong.

It's one of the greatest snapshot photoraphs I've ever seen - of course it's unfortunate that it's of a crash. I'd have loved to have seen the look on the tractor drivers face; it'd be priceless. :eek:

Vertical Lightnings
 

The famous Lightning 'Rotation', (which was a snatch-pull to the near-vertical carried out immediately after raising the undercarriage after takeoff or after a low overshoot -no intentional 'rollers' in Lightnings) was initiated at around 230-240 knots - which fell to around 220 knots by 3-4000 feet, by which time you had better start recovering to a more normal flightpath!
;)
After a crash in the Far East when a pilot rotated too rapidly at too low a speed, flicked and crashed, 'genuine' rotations were banned and only a more controlled transition into a steep climb was allowed, at no less than 250 knots . Much safer, but MUCH less spectacular, and no fun at all! :{ :{

I flew in the same AEF as George Aird in the late 80s when he was working for BAe. The fire did indeed burn through the elevator controls causing the jet to pitch up and down very violently. He ejected at the top of the final bunt before the jet took its final bow. He landed in a large greenhouse and was woken by the spray from the sprinklers.

Reichman

There was also someone (who I used to think was a friend....) who saw Mach-quite-a-lot in a Frightning when pointed straight down after cocking up a PI. Saw the nadir star on the AI sitting dead centre and the strip ASI well to the right and moving further right. Closed the throttles, pulled as hard as possible, then woke up pointing up at very low level with the speed washing off rapidly. Full AB to recover, then off home to Binbrook....

BEagle,

Ref above:

Crikey!

Beagle,

As I remember him telling it, he was chasing a Vulcan at FL400 when it went into a dive to lose him. He was head down on the AI23 and just keeping it centred when something nagged him to look at the instruments, he was descending vertically through the 20s at M1.3+. He pulled the throttles to idle, selected air brakes out (they're speed limited and would only come out when the speed decayed), pulled and waited.

At some stage the brakes the deployed and the G started coming on and he passed out. He woke up with the aircraft in a shallow climb with the altimeter unwinding through -200ft (It had a +/- 700ft error at low level/high speed.

I also remember Porky **** flat spinning during a scissors at around 9,000ft. (The book said eject at that height, but that assumed that the spin had started much higher and that the aircraft had developed a high rate of descent.) His wingman called for him to eject as he passed around 5,000ft but he decided to stick with it as, at that stage, he had the nose down. At the time, he said he pulled out at about 100 ft, but that went up substantially in the report...

Was there any chance to recover the Lightning from such a spin at all?

I know the F106 had a particular (flat?) spin it couldn't get out of.

Back to original question - has anyone really supercruised a combat-fit Lightning say, from the later Binbrook days? I guess it has been done in pre production/test jets but I dunno about regular service jets...

mach2

I witnessed the crash you refer to, it was not a pretty sight. The F6 was no 2 of a pair.After the aircraft had climbed to about 50 ft it flipped wing tip over wing wing tip twice before regaining momentarily a wings level attitude,by this time it had lost forward speed ,dropped like a stone and crashed into a chicken farm the other side of the road that ran alongside the airfield boundary. The canopy was seen to release but unfortunately the ejection was not successful.

ORAC - the reason Porks was unable to hear his wingman telling him to eject was probably, as ever, that he was stuck on transmit! Don't you remeber the ear defenders in the Binners crewroom which were labelled 'Porky Defenders'?

Wonderful RAF fighter mate wit to christen the lad 'Porky'. Why - because he was of the faith which recognises the Sabbath and snips the end off the whatsit. Nowadays it would be considered as non-PC, against the EO-dogma and awfully naughty to give him such a nickname. But Porks thought it was rather a giggle!:ok:

Ref the 'Singapore Rotation' that went wrong. Purely due to the aircraft CofG being further aft than normal. Ventral fuel transfer had been inhibited during taxi to prevent fuel venting. Hence, when pilot applied standard longitudinal control input for a rotation the aircraft was much more responsive.

I do not recollect any change of policy ref rotations after that event. Their airships were much more concerned about people sinking back onto the runway and becoming a flamer even before they got to the rotation point!

lm

I know of another CofG accident when a Lightning F3 from the 1987 aeros pilot went into an (inverted?) spin due to fuel transfer problems. That was overhead Binbrook. Anyone know of the manoeuvre attempted?

Btw would the lighter F3 been able to come out of that Tengah Lightning 'rote' without problems? If I recall the figures correctly he held the Lightning down a bit more and rotated at 290knots instead but pulled (apparently) in excess of 5G (didn't know the Lightning could pull as much from such a low airspeed!).