Baron Waste of Space
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Baron Waste of Space
I see the Baron's shareprice has collapsed this am due to 'problems with MoD contracts'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2567615.stm
So will the mighty hunters be chopped by MoD first to save Baron Waste of Space's face or simply never delivered in time for any of the 'must attend' middle east parties....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2567615.stm
So will the mighty hunters be chopped by MoD first to save Baron Waste of Space's face or simply never delivered in time for any of the 'must attend' middle east parties....
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
No, this is an additional write-off of costs and a further delay. Watch this space for details as they emerge. The Times reports the MOD as being "furious".
Baron
The Guardian today states the Baron wants to renegotiate the fixed price contracts and the MOD has told them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
Tough times ahead for the baron methinks!
Tough times ahead for the baron methinks!
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The Telegraph has a few interesting quotes “…would not simply throw money at Bae as the company has to face up to its responsibilities…” whilst at the same paragraph stating that “…admitted it also had to act in the best interests of the nations defense…”
Sounds like bail out time to me or we wont use the penalty clause but just this once
It must be pointed out that the northwest is heavily dependent on the manufacturing industry. In Lancshire the aerospace industry is I believe the number one employer and as we all know things up north are never as good as down south large scale redundancies will make things worse. Also if Bae starts massive layoffs all the voters in a Labour stronghold wont be very impressed.
Im not any friend of Bae but its so large now that the government simply cannot let it fail.
Sounds like bail out time to me or we wont use the penalty clause but just this once
It must be pointed out that the northwest is heavily dependent on the manufacturing industry. In Lancshire the aerospace industry is I believe the number one employer and as we all know things up north are never as good as down south large scale redundancies will make things worse. Also if Bae starts massive layoffs all the voters in a Labour stronghold wont be very impressed.
Im not any friend of Bae but its so large now that the government simply cannot let it fail.
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Also, what will happen to BWoS's share price when the city start to comprehend the implications of the RSAF's money saving plans for Al Yamamah? This is BWoS's biggest (only?) money earner and a reduction in earnings from the sand pit must have an impact.
And, whilst we're at it, what is the future of MFTS for BWoS? What is this I hear that the MOD are looking at "Italian jet trainers" for the contract? Personally, I think that BWoS has a very uncertain future.
And, whilst we're at it, what is the future of MFTS for BWoS? What is this I hear that the MOD are looking at "Italian jet trainers" for the contract? Personally, I think that BWoS has a very uncertain future.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
BAe are trying to twist a few arms. The Financial Times reports today that BAE are "worried" that the fact that the Astute sub and MR4 programmes are years and billions over budget might cause them to lose the competition to build the new RN carriers. The other bidder is Thales, the decision is expected early next year.
Financial Times Report
Reference the MR4, for those who didn't pick it up on a previous thread, in addition to the wing/fuselage mating problems the following other problems are also present or possible.
The wing structure needs reinforcement around the air intakes.
There is a possibility of distortion in the intakes which may cause engine surge problems.
The programme test pilot expects directional stability trials around the stall to be "interesting", even with the additions to the tail surfaces.
The papers yesterday also mentioned at software integration problems.
First flight has now slipped to the end of 2003.
Financial Times Report
Reference the MR4, for those who didn't pick it up on a previous thread, in addition to the wing/fuselage mating problems the following other problems are also present or possible.
The wing structure needs reinforcement around the air intakes.
There is a possibility of distortion in the intakes which may cause engine surge problems.
The programme test pilot expects directional stability trials around the stall to be "interesting", even with the additions to the tail surfaces.
The papers yesterday also mentioned at software integration problems.
First flight has now slipped to the end of 2003.
Last edited by ORAC; 13th Dec 2002 at 10:14.
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Having spent almost 20 years with BWOS trying to produce a quality product that the Services want (I no longer work for them), all I can say is that it’s a good job they don’t make prams!
My conspiracy theory is that Bae have played up this cock-up, maximising the possible loss, so as to give the City a nice surprise when it isn't quite as bad, beg the MoD for more money, and create poor-me publicity to get the carrier contract...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
EADS targets UK defence market
The Times:
EADS, the Franco-German defence group, has launched a public relations offensive in the UK, targeting the Ministry of Defence in an effort to muscle in on lucrative UK defence procurement contracts and take market share from BAE Systems, its biggest rival in Europe.
The move comes at a bad time for BAE, which has a deteriorating relationship with the MoD and is facing stiff competition from Thales, of France, over a £2.9 billion order for two new full-size aircraft carriers, the Navy’s first such vessels for decades.
“We want to become bigger in the UK,” Rainer Hertrich, German co-chief executive of EADS, said. “We see opportunities for joint ventures, organic growth and acquisitions.” Two weeks ago Herr Hertrich and Philippe Camus, his French co-head, hosted a dinner in London for MPs and senior defence officials. Other EADS executives, including Hans-Peter Ring, the finance director, have also been in the UK recently to help to raise the company’s profile.
EADS is thought likely to target the UK for a “substantial” contract to provide training aircraft, expected to be offered for tender by the MoD soon. The company also has its sights on a contract to integrate the Army’s ground-based air defence radar and control systems. EADS will compete with BAE for both orders.
Recent comments from Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, affirming that all MoD contracts would go out to open international competition, has prompted EADS to act. But Mr Hoon also emphasised the importance of “local content” when awarding big defence contracts, which is why Herr Hertrich wants to expand EADS’s businesses in the UK.
BAE Systems campaigned to keep out foreign competition for UK contracts, but seems to have failed. There is a growing belief in the MoD that companies such as Thales or EADS already have a large UK presence and that awarding them contracts helps to protect British interests.
EADS, the Franco-German defence group, has launched a public relations offensive in the UK, targeting the Ministry of Defence in an effort to muscle in on lucrative UK defence procurement contracts and take market share from BAE Systems, its biggest rival in Europe.
The move comes at a bad time for BAE, which has a deteriorating relationship with the MoD and is facing stiff competition from Thales, of France, over a £2.9 billion order for two new full-size aircraft carriers, the Navy’s first such vessels for decades.
“We want to become bigger in the UK,” Rainer Hertrich, German co-chief executive of EADS, said. “We see opportunities for joint ventures, organic growth and acquisitions.” Two weeks ago Herr Hertrich and Philippe Camus, his French co-head, hosted a dinner in London for MPs and senior defence officials. Other EADS executives, including Hans-Peter Ring, the finance director, have also been in the UK recently to help to raise the company’s profile.
EADS is thought likely to target the UK for a “substantial” contract to provide training aircraft, expected to be offered for tender by the MoD soon. The company also has its sights on a contract to integrate the Army’s ground-based air defence radar and control systems. EADS will compete with BAE for both orders.
Recent comments from Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, affirming that all MoD contracts would go out to open international competition, has prompted EADS to act. But Mr Hoon also emphasised the importance of “local content” when awarding big defence contracts, which is why Herr Hertrich wants to expand EADS’s businesses in the UK.
BAE Systems campaigned to keep out foreign competition for UK contracts, but seems to have failed. There is a growing belief in the MoD that companies such as Thales or EADS already have a large UK presence and that awarding them contracts helps to protect British interests.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The Times - January 16, 2003:
BAE dismayed as Hoon says it is not British
By Russell Hotten
FEARS that the Government is preparing to award a £10 billion defence contract to the French sparked fury from British unions and dismay at BAE Systems yesterday.
The row erupted after Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, told American journalists in London that BAE Systems, Britain’s biggest manufacturer, was no longer British. His comments came after last month’s dispute between BAE and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and, crucially, ahead of the imminent award of a number of large contracts, including a £10 billion order for two aircraft carriers. BAE is bidding against Thales, a French rival.
Analysts said that Mr Hoon’s comments were part of a running dispute between the MoD and BAE over whether contracts should be open to tender by foreign companies.
Mr Hoon said that BAE was no longer British because a majority of its shares were held overseas. He said that BAE had no political advantage over foreign companies when tendering for a contract.
Unions and opposition MPs reacted furiously, and BAE described Mr Hoon’s comments as “regrettable and disappointing”. A spokesman for the former British Aerospace added: “We say this more in sadness than anger.”
The spokesman said: “The Government has a ‘golden share’, and we have rules governing the size of individual foreign shareholdings and the British composition of the board. I think we are British.”
About 54 per cent of BAE’s shares are foreign-held. However, no single overseas institution can own more than 15 per cent of the company. About 47,000 of BAE’s 72,000 employees work in Britain.
Jack Dromey, national organiser of the T&G union, said: “What planet does he (Mr Hoon) live on? As well as its direct employees, a further 100,000 British workers depend on BAE contracts.” Before Christmas, BAE and the MoD were in dispute about cost overruns on two contracts for Nimrod aircraft and the Astute submarine.
BAE dismayed as Hoon says it is not British
By Russell Hotten
FEARS that the Government is preparing to award a £10 billion defence contract to the French sparked fury from British unions and dismay at BAE Systems yesterday.
The row erupted after Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, told American journalists in London that BAE Systems, Britain’s biggest manufacturer, was no longer British. His comments came after last month’s dispute between BAE and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and, crucially, ahead of the imminent award of a number of large contracts, including a £10 billion order for two aircraft carriers. BAE is bidding against Thales, a French rival.
Analysts said that Mr Hoon’s comments were part of a running dispute between the MoD and BAE over whether contracts should be open to tender by foreign companies.
Mr Hoon said that BAE was no longer British because a majority of its shares were held overseas. He said that BAE had no political advantage over foreign companies when tendering for a contract.
Unions and opposition MPs reacted furiously, and BAE described Mr Hoon’s comments as “regrettable and disappointing”. A spokesman for the former British Aerospace added: “We say this more in sadness than anger.”
The spokesman said: “The Government has a ‘golden share’, and we have rules governing the size of individual foreign shareholdings and the British composition of the board. I think we are British.”
About 54 per cent of BAE’s shares are foreign-held. However, no single overseas institution can own more than 15 per cent of the company. About 47,000 of BAE’s 72,000 employees work in Britain.
Jack Dromey, national organiser of the T&G union, said: “What planet does he (Mr Hoon) live on? As well as its direct employees, a further 100,000 British workers depend on BAE contracts.” Before Christmas, BAE and the MoD were in dispute about cost overruns on two contracts for Nimrod aircraft and the Astute submarine.
BAe Not British?
They must be a British company ;
1) they are based in the UK.
2) the last decent product they built was the Hunter in the 60's.
3) they are cr@p
ergo must be British.
1) they are based in the UK.
2) the last decent product they built was the Hunter in the 60's.
3) they are cr@p
ergo must be British.
Woff,
You must be Welsh.
1) You clearly think that you're funny and you're not. (Though you do make me laugh).
2) You are a tw@t who makes over-generalised and symplistic statements
3) You come from Wales.
Ergo you must be a lava bread scoffing, inbred sheep shagger!
You must be Welsh.
1) You clearly think that you're funny and you're not. (Though you do make me laugh).
2) You are a tw@t who makes over-generalised and symplistic statements
3) You come from Wales.
Ergo you must be a lava bread scoffing, inbred sheep shagger!
