Flying the Buccaneer
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Flying the Buccaneer
Someone recently posted a (longish) piece about landing a Buccaneer and described the "juggling" involved with switch and throttle settings. It was so well written it almost made you belive you were there.
I recently got to sit in the front cockpit of said a/c and could not belive where some of the switches had been placed.
I've done a search, but cant find the post. Any pointers would be welcome.
Thanks in advance.
I recently got to sit in the front cockpit of said a/c and could not belive where some of the switches had been placed.
I've done a search, but cant find the post. Any pointers would be welcome.
Thanks in advance.
I posted this back in May on the Private Flying forum - was this the post to which you refer? It was in answer to the question 'Are there any easy-to-fly aeroplanes':
Buccaneer was very unpleasant at low speed (anything below 300KIAS). Had considerable adverse yaw, low control forces with little natural feedback. To change from cruise flight regime to final approach went something like: Idle power, 100% airbrake. At 300KIAS, change hands and pull lever to put ailerons into low-gear mode, switch 3 autostabs to low speed, change hands again. Then, at 280?KIAS, select 15-10-10. That's 15 deg of mainplane flap, 10 deg of aileron droop and 10 deg of tailplane flap - all of which must move together and stop together; this is checked on 'cheese' gauges. Then at 230?KIAS, select u/c down and do the rest of the pre-landing checks from memory. I think that at this stage airbrake went to 75%. Then, at 225?KIAS, select 30-20-20 and check the cheeses again to ensure that everything is moving together and stops together, plus the blow gauges of which 2 were on the glareshield, the other somewhere down by your left elbow. Then at 200?KIAS select 45-25-25, check cheeses and blow again (different pressures this time) and decelerate to achieve 'datum' (Vat) plus 10 kts. Start the final turn and ensure that the AoA, IAS, balance and thrust are all OK - there is no interconnection between rudder and aileron to assist the highly marginal lateral stability; decelerate to datum+5 half-way round. At this stage the ac is very unstable in all planes and must be flown very carefully indeed. Throttling back too much will cause rapid sink, excessive AoA and is extremely dangerous. Finally, once the brute is on final approach on the correct glidepath, select 100% airbrake and reduce to datum speed keeping the AoA audio in the 'steady+ low' range and the engines above 86% HP RPM... That's what I call difficult!!
Whereas of the lovely Hunter GT6, I had this to say:
Having told you why I thought the Buccaneer and Jetstream to be pretty unpleasant, it’s only fitting that I tell you why the lovely Hunter ‘GT6’ was my favourite ever aeroplane. Take a standard Hunter F Mk 6, remove the heavy 4 x 30mm Aden gun pack and the draggy ‘Sabrina’ link collectors, add a TACAN so at least you know where you are, then paint the whole thing in go-faster high gloss ‘raspberry ripple’ polyurethane paint and there you have it. During 1975, I’d finished my Gnat course and had been holding awaiting a pre-Tactical Weapons Unit Hunter course. When the course started, it was a few days’ groundschool, some simulator trips and then on to the Hunter T Mk 7, otherwise known as the ‘barge’. After the compact Gnat with its central warning system, Hobson motor pitch system and OR 946 instrumentation, the ‘barge’ was a real backward step - and it seemed as big as an airliner! But after passing the simulator check and the T7 dual rides, finally the day came on 9 Dec 75 to fly a real single seat fighter for the first time! Get kitted up in goon suit and anti-‘g’ suit, then out to the aeroplane parked on ‘Hunter beach’ at Valley. Walk round, prod, poke, squint, then up the ladder and into the cockpit. ‘Fitz’, a CFS trapper visiting 4FTS keeps a fatherly eye on proceedings from the top of the ladder as I truss myself into a maze of webbing which would satisfy the most earnest bondage fetishist. Finally it’s time to lift the gangbar and turn on the batteries. First surprise - there’s no intercom sidetone. Because, of course, there’s no-one to talk to in a single-seater, stupid! Do the checks then wave finger at the groundcrew and Press the Button. The Avpin starter works as advertised and the smell of iso-propyl-nitrate fills the air. But all is well, gennies on , radio on, IFF on, power controls on. ‘Fitz’ smiles and disappears, the ladder is removed and it’s time to call for taxy. Next surprise, it’s so much easier to taxy than the barge and before long I’m at the holding point. Take-off clearance received, it's on to RW32 and off we go. Power up, quick stir of the controls then set top left and off we go. A brief ‘da-da-da’ from the bleed valves but initial acceleration seems much like it was in the T7. But then the extra oomph of the big Avon makes itself felt and there’s an almighty roar from somewhere behind as the IAS increases rapidly. Suddenly we’re airborne - Brakes on, gear up, flaps up, gear lights out, pressurisation master on.....then at 500ft start the right turn onto 140° to intercept the 100° radial. But we’re already passing 1000 ft and going like a train! Throttle to max continuous and adjust to 370 KIAS -except we’re already doing over 400! Pitch up, nail the speed, there’s the radial, turn left breathe out. ATC ask whether I’m ever going to change to Approach! Oops, to Stud 2 then up the radial towards FL 200. At around 10 000 ft, remember to set 1013..... Finally catch up with the beast at FL 200 and check position. How can I be so far away from base already? Aim in a safe direction, think ‘OK - let’s see what she’ll do’ - set max continuous and M0.9something comes up amazingly quickly. Tweak the control column back and the altimeter goes bananas - as do ATC as I’m in the upper airspace without clearance! Then settle down to some aeros and max rate turns before aiming back at Valley for a QGH to PAR. That all goes OK, so I roll and then out go to initials for a visual run-in-and-break. Overtake a couple of Gnats, call ‘initials’, then idle power, airbrake out....70-80° angle of bank and 23° flap on the break. Roll out, airbrake in, gear down - and the controls go all stiff as the hydraulic pump can’t cope with both things together. So a bit of power and all is well. Call ‘final’, 38° flap and pitch into the final turn. Then full flap, slow down to Vat plus 10 and another nice roller. Full power - lovely loud noise - another circuit and it’s time to land. Turn off, taxy in and shut down, grinning from ear to ear. My logbook says ‘December 10 1975 Hunter F6 XF386 Self / Solo Ex RF4 0:50 First Pilot (Captain), 0:05 actual IF, QGH/PAR, 3 landings. But that hardly describes such an experience!
And what of XF386? She lived on for nearly 20 more years before being scrapped at Otterburn in 1996 after 40 years loyal service. A cruel death for such a lovely lady - I hope she’s up there in Hunter heaven.......
Buccaneer was very unpleasant at low speed (anything below 300KIAS). Had considerable adverse yaw, low control forces with little natural feedback. To change from cruise flight regime to final approach went something like: Idle power, 100% airbrake. At 300KIAS, change hands and pull lever to put ailerons into low-gear mode, switch 3 autostabs to low speed, change hands again. Then, at 280?KIAS, select 15-10-10. That's 15 deg of mainplane flap, 10 deg of aileron droop and 10 deg of tailplane flap - all of which must move together and stop together; this is checked on 'cheese' gauges. Then at 230?KIAS, select u/c down and do the rest of the pre-landing checks from memory. I think that at this stage airbrake went to 75%. Then, at 225?KIAS, select 30-20-20 and check the cheeses again to ensure that everything is moving together and stops together, plus the blow gauges of which 2 were on the glareshield, the other somewhere down by your left elbow. Then at 200?KIAS select 45-25-25, check cheeses and blow again (different pressures this time) and decelerate to achieve 'datum' (Vat) plus 10 kts. Start the final turn and ensure that the AoA, IAS, balance and thrust are all OK - there is no interconnection between rudder and aileron to assist the highly marginal lateral stability; decelerate to datum+5 half-way round. At this stage the ac is very unstable in all planes and must be flown very carefully indeed. Throttling back too much will cause rapid sink, excessive AoA and is extremely dangerous. Finally, once the brute is on final approach on the correct glidepath, select 100% airbrake and reduce to datum speed keeping the AoA audio in the 'steady+ low' range and the engines above 86% HP RPM... That's what I call difficult!!
Whereas of the lovely Hunter GT6, I had this to say:
Having told you why I thought the Buccaneer and Jetstream to be pretty unpleasant, it’s only fitting that I tell you why the lovely Hunter ‘GT6’ was my favourite ever aeroplane. Take a standard Hunter F Mk 6, remove the heavy 4 x 30mm Aden gun pack and the draggy ‘Sabrina’ link collectors, add a TACAN so at least you know where you are, then paint the whole thing in go-faster high gloss ‘raspberry ripple’ polyurethane paint and there you have it. During 1975, I’d finished my Gnat course and had been holding awaiting a pre-Tactical Weapons Unit Hunter course. When the course started, it was a few days’ groundschool, some simulator trips and then on to the Hunter T Mk 7, otherwise known as the ‘barge’. After the compact Gnat with its central warning system, Hobson motor pitch system and OR 946 instrumentation, the ‘barge’ was a real backward step - and it seemed as big as an airliner! But after passing the simulator check and the T7 dual rides, finally the day came on 9 Dec 75 to fly a real single seat fighter for the first time! Get kitted up in goon suit and anti-‘g’ suit, then out to the aeroplane parked on ‘Hunter beach’ at Valley. Walk round, prod, poke, squint, then up the ladder and into the cockpit. ‘Fitz’, a CFS trapper visiting 4FTS keeps a fatherly eye on proceedings from the top of the ladder as I truss myself into a maze of webbing which would satisfy the most earnest bondage fetishist. Finally it’s time to lift the gangbar and turn on the batteries. First surprise - there’s no intercom sidetone. Because, of course, there’s no-one to talk to in a single-seater, stupid! Do the checks then wave finger at the groundcrew and Press the Button. The Avpin starter works as advertised and the smell of iso-propyl-nitrate fills the air. But all is well, gennies on , radio on, IFF on, power controls on. ‘Fitz’ smiles and disappears, the ladder is removed and it’s time to call for taxy. Next surprise, it’s so much easier to taxy than the barge and before long I’m at the holding point. Take-off clearance received, it's on to RW32 and off we go. Power up, quick stir of the controls then set top left and off we go. A brief ‘da-da-da’ from the bleed valves but initial acceleration seems much like it was in the T7. But then the extra oomph of the big Avon makes itself felt and there’s an almighty roar from somewhere behind as the IAS increases rapidly. Suddenly we’re airborne - Brakes on, gear up, flaps up, gear lights out, pressurisation master on.....then at 500ft start the right turn onto 140° to intercept the 100° radial. But we’re already passing 1000 ft and going like a train! Throttle to max continuous and adjust to 370 KIAS -except we’re already doing over 400! Pitch up, nail the speed, there’s the radial, turn left breathe out. ATC ask whether I’m ever going to change to Approach! Oops, to Stud 2 then up the radial towards FL 200. At around 10 000 ft, remember to set 1013..... Finally catch up with the beast at FL 200 and check position. How can I be so far away from base already? Aim in a safe direction, think ‘OK - let’s see what she’ll do’ - set max continuous and M0.9something comes up amazingly quickly. Tweak the control column back and the altimeter goes bananas - as do ATC as I’m in the upper airspace without clearance! Then settle down to some aeros and max rate turns before aiming back at Valley for a QGH to PAR. That all goes OK, so I roll and then out go to initials for a visual run-in-and-break. Overtake a couple of Gnats, call ‘initials’, then idle power, airbrake out....70-80° angle of bank and 23° flap on the break. Roll out, airbrake in, gear down - and the controls go all stiff as the hydraulic pump can’t cope with both things together. So a bit of power and all is well. Call ‘final’, 38° flap and pitch into the final turn. Then full flap, slow down to Vat plus 10 and another nice roller. Full power - lovely loud noise - another circuit and it’s time to land. Turn off, taxy in and shut down, grinning from ear to ear. My logbook says ‘December 10 1975 Hunter F6 XF386 Self / Solo Ex RF4 0:50 First Pilot (Captain), 0:05 actual IF, QGH/PAR, 3 landings. But that hardly describes such an experience!
And what of XF386? She lived on for nearly 20 more years before being scrapped at Otterburn in 1996 after 40 years loyal service. A cruel death for such a lovely lady - I hope she’s up there in Hunter heaven.......
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Jimgriff
Good post - it'll run for ever; Pitchfork's new book 'The Buccaneers' will help. I only had 4 years on the beast, but with Navs such as MacKC, C-S, Leckers, Friz and Sparcky (god bless), the switchery and their meaning were always a little meaningless. They all survived my front seat antics, and I their whinging ------ but what a mad, and often illegal ball we had. Switches didn't seem to matter at zilch feet and .5K knots - the beast was safe and brought you home (JB). Bucc Mk5 would've been great given today's avionics -------------
BEeagle
With all that recall, you just have to be an A1 QFI trapper - or it must've been I that checked you out with a kick- the- fires brief, and you sussed it all out at once. Most of my memories of the jet are : nurse it with flap, nibble-nibble, full poke to do it, 500 plus at a stroke, and all when she asked. She could even do it without an engine - in the same unforgiving manner (ask Gos and self).
Ah well, back to the bar -----------
Good post - it'll run for ever; Pitchfork's new book 'The Buccaneers' will help. I only had 4 years on the beast, but with Navs such as MacKC, C-S, Leckers, Friz and Sparcky (god bless), the switchery and their meaning were always a little meaningless. They all survived my front seat antics, and I their whinging ------ but what a mad, and often illegal ball we had. Switches didn't seem to matter at zilch feet and .5K knots - the beast was safe and brought you home (JB). Bucc Mk5 would've been great given today's avionics -------------
BEeagle
With all that recall, you just have to be an A1 QFI trapper - or it must've been I that checked you out with a kick- the- fires brief, and you sussed it all out at once. Most of my memories of the jet are : nurse it with flap, nibble-nibble, full poke to do it, 500 plus at a stroke, and all when she asked. She could even do it without an engine - in the same unforgiving manner (ask Gos and self).
Ah well, back to the bar -----------
Lord no! I was useless on the Bucc - or so the caring folk at 237 OCU said! Struggled to cope - but at least I was top of the bombing ladder when the axe finally fell!!
There were a few good guys there though - such as the 'firm but fair' Bruce C. It's probably his clear handling briefs which I still remember........
There were a few good guys there though - such as the 'firm but fair' Bruce C. It's probably his clear handling briefs which I still remember........
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Mr BEagle.
I was very interested to read your reply to this topic, and wanted to say thanks for sharing your experience with me.
I am not a military aviator, and was a young lad when the Buccaneer was gracing our skies. My interest in the topic is more by chance than intention.
My father recently told me about a BBC TV series he had purchased on video called "Sailor". I had not heard of the series, and had infact been 4yrs old when it was first broadcast. To my delight I sat and watched the entire series with a sense of pride and sadness.
My pride was watching the Buccaneers being thrown off one end of the ship and slamming back onto the other. The skill and quiet professionalism of those pilots was breathtaking. If they had been American they would have surely told everyone how great they were!! I also understand a little of the sadness felt by all those who flew from a pitching deck. Why are we so good at destroying what makes this country great?
I appreciate that I may have drifted from the thread slightly, but just wanted to say that I am now fan of the Bucanneer and those who flew her.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, one very impressed young man.
Regards
Big G.
I was very interested to read your reply to this topic, and wanted to say thanks for sharing your experience with me.
I am not a military aviator, and was a young lad when the Buccaneer was gracing our skies. My interest in the topic is more by chance than intention.
My father recently told me about a BBC TV series he had purchased on video called "Sailor". I had not heard of the series, and had infact been 4yrs old when it was first broadcast. To my delight I sat and watched the entire series with a sense of pride and sadness.
My pride was watching the Buccaneers being thrown off one end of the ship and slamming back onto the other. The skill and quiet professionalism of those pilots was breathtaking. If they had been American they would have surely told everyone how great they were!! I also understand a little of the sadness felt by all those who flew from a pitching deck. Why are we so good at destroying what makes this country great?
I appreciate that I may have drifted from the thread slightly, but just wanted to say that I am now fan of the Bucanneer and those who flew her.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, one very impressed young man.
Regards
Big G.
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BEags
If you were on 237 in early '76, we must have been on adjacent courses!
If anyone wishes a copy of 'The Buccaneers', it can be obtained from Sutton Publishing; ISBN: 1852606118. Phone 01453 731114; price about £22 (inc P&P).
If you were on 237 in early '76, we must have been on adjacent courses!
If anyone wishes a copy of 'The Buccaneers', it can be obtained from Sutton Publishing; ISBN: 1852606118. Phone 01453 731114; price about £22 (inc P&P).
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Big G.
If I've done this properly - an image of the Ark Royal with some Buccaneers on the pointy end. I've got some more but they show Gnats and Phantoms. And before anyone asks - they are not restricted (Sqds. 809, 824, 849 and 892)
Aw nuts... didn't work off to find out how to upload photos...
If I've done this properly - an image of the Ark Royal with some Buccaneers on the pointy end. I've got some more but they show Gnats and Phantoms. And before anyone asks - they are not restricted (Sqds. 809, 824, 849 and 892)
Aw nuts... didn't work off to find out how to upload photos...
Great post Beags. You and other ex-Bucc pilots may be interested in a book called " From Spitfire to Eurofighter". It is the autobiography of Roy Boot (the father of a mate of mine). He was a senior designer at BAe Brough, and devotes 2-3 chapters to the design and development of the Bucc. A bit turgid in terms of literary style, but particularly interesting are the tales of variants that never made it (including the P150). There are some photos of 237 playing with their toys.
ISBN 1-85310-093-5, published by Airlife in 1990.
I wish I had had a back seat ride in one of the beasts......
Skua
ISBN 1-85310-093-5, published by Airlife in 1990.
I wish I had had a back seat ride in one of the beasts......
Skua
Last edited by skua; 3rd Nov 2002 at 14:30.
The best summary I ever heard of the degree of confidence one gained from the strength of the Bucc was a comment from the legendary Bruce Chapple:
"You don't go over hills in this - you go through them. You look for things to ram...."
..accompanied by a 'prop forward'-style neck movement!
"You don't go over hills in this - you go through them. You look for things to ram...."
..accompanied by a 'prop forward'-style neck movement!
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the buccaneer
for one tsr2(was it ever going to have a proper name?) you can have five buccaners. thats what mountbatten said as cds, the arrogant person, imagine if a cds did that today? anyway having read all that about trying to land the thing, imagine doing that on to a ship? i'm honestly suprised the faa accepted the aircraft. but the navy has never understood aviation has it?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Well actually, canberra, they managed quite successfully for many years. Just because something's not easy, doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
Actually, once one had got used to the strange behaviour of the beast around the final turn, once etablished on the mirror landing sight even for us struggling learners at Honington it was amazing how precise the glidepath control of the Bucc was with judicious use of power against 17' 6" of full airbrake!
And as for the antics of Earl Mountbottom, words fail me.....
And as for the antics of Earl Mountbottom, words fail me.....
A combination of crap wx, son who wanted to see the FAA museum at Yeovilton on Wednesday (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it) and a sudden rush of nostalgia led me to buy BOTH "Sailor" videos.
Watching that poor bastard have 6 goes to get onto Ark Royal in a Bucc - you can feel for him. And the rest of that sequence - well worth watching.
Watching that poor bastard have 6 goes to get onto Ark Royal in a Bucc - you can feel for him. And the rest of that sequence - well worth watching.
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ATD
I haven’t bought the book yet, but apparently, there are some excellent stories and great photos by Andrew Brooks. Also, I’m told there is a photo of the very first RAF Red Flag Det (including a very young Steadynote). Another nostalgia trip!
I haven’t bought the book yet, but apparently, there are some excellent stories and great photos by Andrew Brooks. Also, I’m told there is a photo of the very first RAF Red Flag Det (including a very young Steadynote). Another nostalgia trip!
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Another excellent video with plenty of "Bucc" footage is "The Ark Royals". An excellent sequence of a practice attack on a power station at the end of a fjord is included. Is it true it didnt even have a HUD.
Correct. No HUD, just a relatively simple 'strike sight'. For a 'medium toss' attack, as you rushed in to the target, after you'd 'accepted' the attack with the under-throttle accept bar, at the 'moment critique' a 'pitch up' demand would cause part of the symblogy to move up the glass; you then attempted to catch it by pulling back on the control column. When all 6 analogue servos agreed, out came the pin, off came the bomb and you entered the 'toss recovery' manoeuvre - roll to 120 deg AoB, pitch down to the horizon, relax to 90 deg AoB, turn and descend to quit by the route of arrival with throttles fully forward..... Normally you'd get the bomb to within about 150 ft of the target having released it at 500 kts some 3 miles away!