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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

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‘Stop choosing useless white male pilots’, RAF told

Old 31st May 2023, 17:03
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Gp Capt Lizzie Nichol

I try very hard, on a daily basis, to not get annoyed by what happens in an organisation that I am no longer a part of. As a white male it’s obvious that the RAF doesn’t miss me anyway, so it’s probably best that I stick by that mantra.

I do have one burning question though. The one person that has come out of the whole shambles smelling of roses is Lizzie Nicholl. I wholeheartedly agree that she did the right thing by highlighting the issue but I wonder what publicity she would have got if she were a white, male Gp Capt. Would the court of public opinion just have told a white, male officer to put up and shut up?

Have we actually entered a time where the one group of people who cannot comment on the issue of white males being discriminated against are white males? Is it exclusively everyone else that needs to stand up for the white males before anyone takes notice? Would it be fair to say that everyone that isn’t a white male and fails to speak up does it out of self interest or just fails to see an issue? Because I don’t see a whole lot of sympathy on here from anyone except other white males.

Anyway, just throwing that out there to add to the conversation. I’m sure I’ll face a barrage of accusations of being sexist/misogynist/fascist/racist for daring to stick my head above the parapet but c’est la vie.

I wish the best of luck to anyone who wants to join the RAF right now but it saddens me to say that, right now, I wouldn’t recommended it to anyone.

Here’s hoping that an Engineer CAS is what the RAF has been missing this whole time and he can sort out the mess left by Wigston.

BV
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Old 31st May 2023, 17:24
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I wish the best of luck to anyone who wants to join the RAF right now but it saddens me to say that, right now, I wouldn’t recommended it to anyone.
If the career simply doesn't look appealing, there simply won't be enough applicants be they black, white, blue, green, male, female or anything else.
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Old 31st May 2023, 17:38
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Have we actually entered a time where the one group of people who cannot comment on the issue of white males being discriminated against are white males? Is it exclusively everyone else that needs to stand up for the white males before anyone takes notice? Would it be fair to say that everyone that isn’t a white male and fails to speak up does it out of self interest or just fails to see an issue? Because I don’t see a whole lot of sympathy on here from anyone except other white males.
I think the response would be that white males have done pretty well out of speaking up for themselves up to now, they don't need much help or sympathy. And what percentage of people on here aren't white males?

As my scottish wife says to me in discussions on these matters - "You're a middle-class, 6ft white male - what the f*ck have you got to worry about?"
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Old 31st May 2023, 17:45
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Originally Posted by etrang
If Ukraine had some black female pilots they might be operating a few squadrons on F16s by now.
Why, do they require less time for conversion ?
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Old 31st May 2023, 17:46
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Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements

A bunch of female pilots
And sexier than a sexy thing.
Where’s that bloody coat ?
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Old 31st May 2023, 17:47
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I know it is the Mail but…

The RAF is also reportedly paying £5,000 each to 31 white men who it found had been unfairly disadvantaged by its recruitment policy.

And some selection boards were cancelled if they did not include women or ethnic minorities, according to the leaked messages.

The second email read: 'You will note however that the pot for BAME and female is drained.

'From 336 Cs [candidates] we have c10% female, 5% BAME which we will burn through quickly using the boarding profile proposed.

'As you know we select approx. 45-50% of BAME and female that we board therefore we expect to select c15 female and 7 BAME from the current cohort.

'The demand signal needs to go back to RF [the recruitment force] to focus now on sending all the BAME and female they have.

'We have cancelled 2 x boards next week due to them having no female/BAME or priority Br [priority branch] on them'.

The emails date back to when recruitment and selection was led by Group Captain William Dole.

He succeeded Group Captain Elizabeth Nicholl, who resigned in protest at what she deemed to be an 'unlawful order' to effectively pause the selection of white men in an effort to hit 'impossible' diversity targets, according to defence sources.

The order was never implemented because of her resignation.

An RAF spokesman said: 'The Royal Air Force will not shy away from the challenges we face building a Service that attracts and recruits talent from every part of the UK workforce.

'We will continue doing everything we can to increase our recruiting intake from under-represented groups within the provisions of the law.

'All individuals joining the Royal Air Force were and are selected on merit and any individuals that were advanced to their training courses had already passed the selection process.

'There was no compromise of entry standards and no impact on the frontline or operational effectiveness.'

It comes after the outgoing chief of the RAF admitted the air force made mistakes in its diversity recruitment drive.

Air Chief Marshall Sir Mike Wigston, who is retiring next month, said: 'We were doing all we could to tackle this intractable problem, which is the lack of diversity in our service.'

But the Chief of the Air Staff revealed that the failing recruitment drive resulted in the resignation of a senior official, which he described as a 'regrettable outcome'.

His goals had been for 40 per cent of the force's personnel to be women and 20 per cent to be from ethnic minorities by the end of the decade.

Sir Mike, 55, said one of the mistakes made was that those 'aspirational goals filtered down into people's personal objectives in-year, which they found almost impossible to meet'.

'That put intolerable pressure on them and I've apologised to the recruiting and selection organisation,' he added.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-officers.html

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Old 31st May 2023, 17:49
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Ken that does do a bit of disservice to those pilots that were not white during ww2... Just saying.
​​​​​​​Nutloose - no disservice intended to anyone who fought for their country. The picture was of some white males who I don’t believe were useless.
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Old 31st May 2023, 18:07
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"You're a middle-class, 6ft white male - what the f*ck have you got to worry about?"
A 7ft Scottish one?
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Old 31st May 2023, 18:15
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Originally Posted by ETOPS
A 7ft Scottish one?
I can run faster
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Old 31st May 2023, 18:21
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I think the response would be that white males have done pretty well out of speaking up for themselves up to now, they don't need much help or sympathy. And what percentage of people on here aren't white males?

As my scottish wife says to me in discussions on these matters - "You're a middle-class, 6ft white male - what the f*ck have you got to worry about?"
and given this OASC, a comment on “useless” is probably one that’s at least factual (as far as any board can be).
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Old 31st May 2023, 18:25
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I think the response would be that white males have done pretty well out of speaking up for themselves up to now, they don't need much help or sympathy. And what percentage of people on here aren't white males?

As my scottish wife says to me in discussions on these matters - "You're a middle-class, 6ft white male - what the f*ck have you got to worry about?"
Your wife?
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Old 31st May 2023, 19:06
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Originally Posted by Ken Scott
no disservice intended to anyone who fought for their country. The picture was of some white males who I don’t believe were useless.
I understand the point you're making, but in fairness, this was 1940, so the people int hat picture probably were aircrew pre-war, and if so what were the chances on them not being white?

Plus, how much immigration into the UK had there been before 1940? Didn't most of that happen in the fifties when the Commonwealth/Empire started breaking up?
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Old 31st May 2023, 19:08
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"You're a middle-class, 6ft white male - what the f*ck have you got to worry about?"
Demonstrable, systemic, racial discrimination as shown by the RAF? ​​​​​​​
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Old 31st May 2023, 19:26
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Sexism is sexism. If instead of the words "white" and "male", what if the words "black" and "female" were used?
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Old 31st May 2023, 19:27
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I think the response would be that white males have done pretty well out of speaking up for themselves up to now, they don't need much help or sympathy. And what percentage of people on here aren't white males?

As my scottish wife says to me in discussions on these matters - "You're a middle-class, 6ft white male - what the f*ck have you got to worry about?"
Not all white males have done well for themselves. If we truly want to end racism then remarks like yours need to stop because its not going to happen when we are still identifying and classifying people by their skin colour.
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Old 31st May 2023, 20:21
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Originally Posted by m0nkfish
Not all white males have done well for themselves. If we truly want to end racism then remarks like yours need to stop because its not going to happen when we are still identifying and classifying people by their skin colour.
Hopefully we'd all agree with that, but how do we get there? What we've been doing up to now doesn't seem to have worked.
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Old 31st May 2023, 20:39
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Hopefully we'd all agree with that, but how do we get there? What we've been doing up to now doesn't seem to have worked.
Maybe it has. Maybe that’s why the RAF has successful for the last 105 years. By selecting the best person for the job based on the selection processes of the time regardless of race or sex (albeit female pilots have only been allowed for the last 30 years).
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Old 31st May 2023, 21:04
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Hopefully we'd all agree with that, but how do we get there? What we've been doing up to now doesn't seem to have worked.
Treating someone differently because of their race or the color their skin is the very definition of racism.
Presumably we all agree that racism is a bad thing.
You don't fix a bad thing by implementing more of it.
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Old 31st May 2023, 21:51
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Not military ... and 'blind selection' of pilots could be somewhat problematic but

https://gap.hks.harvard.edu/orchestr...male-musicians

30% increase in chance of females being selected for a role in orchestras using “blind” auditions - players were visually screened from those evaluating them.
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Old 31st May 2023, 22:46
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Perhaps the male RAF candidates should say they identify as female......that would get round the problem perhaps?

I'll get my coat.......
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