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NORDO over England 04/03/2023, N362PH

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NORDO over England 04/03/2023, N362PH

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Old 6th Mar 2023, 10:21
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz
Doesn't need to be hijacked by a third party; both crew in league (or one overpowers the other) to initiate some nefarious agenda.
Indeed, only takes one. Would the number of persons on board be known to the person authorising Q and would it have any bearing on the decision?
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 10:49
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I'd just tee'd off the 15th (near Leicester) when the sonic booms arrived, scared the living bejeezus out of us all. Glad it turned out to be a "routine" intercept that ended safely.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 11:34
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Who owns this hunk of junk? Why is it operating in and out of the UK?

As has been suggested they looked like they were going into LHR which seems unusual but the whole situation is unusual - the CAA should comment
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 11:53
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Originally Posted by Dogma
Who owns this hunk of junk? Why is it operating in and out of the UK?
Intended route was Iceland to Kenya via Southend. Perhaps they though a tech stop en route was preferable to plummeting into the Med.

As has been suggested they looked like they were going into LHR which seems unusual but the whole situation is unusual - the CAA should comment
Over Reading at 15,000 ft didn't suggest a Heathrow inbound to me.


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Old 6th Mar 2023, 15:36
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Intended route was Iceland to Kenya via Southend. Perhaps they though a tech stop en route was preferable to plummeting into the Med.



Over Reading at 15,000 ft didn't suggest a Heathrow inbound to me.
Wasn’t it following instructions from the Typhoon(s) well before it got to Reading and therefore had little control of its choice of height or heading?
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 16:41
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Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz
Doesn't need to be hijacked by a third party; both crew in league (or one overpowers the other) to initiate some nefarious agenda.
Exactly. It's not how many are on board that matters, it is how many below that can harmed that counts.

Even a single seat Cessna into a football stadium would be catastophic. As an example (not withstanding timing) weren't Chelsea at home that day? A potential audience circa 40,000 people in a relatively confined area just a few miles east of LHR.

Did this aircraft actually fly over LHR at 7000' whence it made the sharp turn onto north? Somebody either instructed it to go that way or it did so of its own accord. Does anyone know which it was?

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Old 6th Mar 2023, 16:49
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
Indeed, only takes one. Would the number of persons on board be known to the person authorising Q and would it have any bearing on the decision?
It’s a Dash 8, on an IFR flight plan - of course the POB are known. It’s not some Sunday afternoon VFR PPL in a Cessna 152.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 17:56
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Originally Posted by DuncanDoenitz
Doesn't need to be hijacked by a third party; both crew in league (or one overpowers the other) to initiate some nefarious agenda.
Germanwings murder suicide crash is a case in point.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 18:22
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Originally Posted by 212man
It’s a Dash 8, on an IFR flight plan - of course the POB are known. It’s not some Sunday afternoon VFR PPL in a Cessna 152.
That information may be known, but it’s academic. Until some radio or visual contact is made nobody has any idea what’s going on aboard the aircraft, and the interceptors have to possess the means to destroy it if ordered. It’s not a game.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 18:57
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Originally Posted by 212man
It’s a Dash 8, on an IFR flight plan - of course the POB are known. It’s not some Sunday afternoon VFR PPL in a Cessna 152.
Doesn't stop a hitch hiker asking the pilot for a lift at the last minute.
I had a helicopter depart from Wycombe and the ATCO recorded 3 pob. When it crashed, the police recorded pob as 2. I double checked with Wycombe and they were adamant they had booked out with 3. I tried to tell the police but they weren't interested so I managed to get hold of the AAIB inspector and told him.
Sure enough they eventually found a third body some distance from the helicopter. They guessed she'd realised there was a problem and had jumped out before impact.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 19:16
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Doesn't stop a hitch hiker asking the pilot for a lift at the last minute.
I had a helicopter depart from Wycombe and the ATCO recorded 3 pob. When it crashed, the police recorded pob as 2. I double checked with Wycombe and they were adamant they had booked out with 3. I tried to tell the police but they weren't interested so I managed to get hold of the AAIB inspector and told him.
Sure enough they eventually found a third body some distance from the helicopter. They guessed she'd realised there was a problem and had jumped out before impact.
A well known accident involving Denis Kenyon’s son. Given it was a two seat aircraft that had a third occupant, and it broke up in flight, it’s highly unlikely she ‘jumped’!
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 20:21
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY
Exactly. It's not how many are on board that matters, it is how many below that can harmed that counts.

Even a single seat Cessna into a football stadium would be catastophic. As an example (not withstanding timing) weren't Chelsea at home that day? A potential audience circa 40,000 people in a relatively confined area just a few miles east of LHR.

Did this aircraft actually fly over LHR at 7000' whence it made the sharp turn onto north? Somebody either instructed it to go that way or it did so of its own accord. Does anyone know which it was?
The sonic boom from the Typhoons was heard over Northamptonshire and parts of Oxfordshire, but neither we (near Benson) nor my daughter's family (near Abingdon) heard it. The Dash 8 began its descent from FL250 around Kidlington. It then routed in continual descent to Reading, passing overhead there at FL150, then turned east still descending, and turned north at Heathrow levelling at FL70 in the turn. The aircraft then routed north towards Luton before turning east towards Stansted, all at FL70. All these data come from the replay function on ADSB Exchange.

I assume therefore that the intercept took place north of Oxford, perhaps around Banbury, and the Dash 8 was "guided" around London (broadly following the M25 clockwise) in order to avoid flying over the city center.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 21:00
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Originally Posted by 212man
A well known accident involving Denis Kenyon’s son. Given it was a two seat aircraft that had a third occupant, and it broke up in flight, it’s highly unlikely she ‘jumped’!
Helicopter was a 3 seat Hughes 300 but the police originally assumed it was an R22 hence only 2 pob.
Didn't know about the connection with Denis (he only died a few years ago).
I worked with a student of Denis (she and I were both FISOs) when I was at Fairoaks but only met him once.
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Old 6th Mar 2023, 21:20
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by roger4
The sonic boom from the Typhoons was heard over Northamptonshire and parts of Oxfordshire, but neither we (near Benson) nor my daughter's family (near Abingdon) heard it. The Dash 8 began its descent from FL250 around Kidlington. It then routed in continual descent to Reading, passing overhead there at FL150, then turned east still descending, and turned north at Heathrow levelling at FL70 in the turn. The aircraft then routed north towards Luton before turning east towards Stansted, all at FL70. All these data come from the replay function on ADSB Exchange.

I assume therefore that the intercept took place north of Oxford, perhaps around Banbury, and the Dash 8 was "guided" around London (broadly following the M25 clockwise) in order to avoid flying over the city center.
Thanks Roger4, I have seen the replay.
First reports on social media regarding a "boom" were at around 12:10 Usually a pretty good time stamp with the "WTF was that bang I just heard" etc. . At that time the 7600 was just about over Banbury. Intercept then needs to lose a lot of speed to join the Dash 8, get its attention, go through the procedures before doing the escort to Stansted. Intercept was probably a fair bit south of Banbury and now at Dash 8 speed.

I know when the Typhoons launched... The guys did good.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 08:47
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dogma
Who owns this hunk of junk? Why is it operating in and out of the UK?

As has been suggested they looked like they were going into LHR which seems unusual but the whole situation is unusual - the CAA should comment
Reportedly the aircraft had been stored since March 2019 and first flew recently on 1st March 2023. As I write it's still on the ground at STN.

Last edited by Expressflight; 7th Mar 2023 at 10:16. Reason: additional info
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 11:15
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Expressflight
Reportedly the aircraft had been stored since March 2019 and first flew recently on 1st March 2023. As I write it's still on the ground at STN.
So the pilot(s) could have just been ferry pilots unfamiliar with the on board equipment fit just as I suggested earlier at #32.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 13:18
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY
Even a single seat Cessna into a football stadium would be catastophic. As an example (not withstanding timing) weren't Chelsea at home that day? A potential audience circa 40,000 people in a relatively confined area just a few miles east of LHR
More than that at Twickenham, a lot closer to LHR.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 14:30
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron
So the pilot(s) could have just been ferry pilots unfamiliar with the on board equipment fit just as I suggested earlier at #32.
Not a very good fit as a “Ferry Pilot” if he has never operated in European airspace and can’t RFM. Joke. Any chance the notorious Ferry Pilot “Robert Weaver” has resurfaced? Joke Over

Last edited by albatross; 7th Mar 2023 at 19:27.
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 18:44
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Dash 8 left Stansted earlier, got over the channel and has now turned back...
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Old 7th Mar 2023, 19:54
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Dash 8 left Stansted earlier, got over the channel and has now turned back...
Or was it forced to turn back.......
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