Chinese spy balloon over US
Originally Posted by langleybaston
Negloble over a 5 mile base line.
Originally Posted by Ninthace
Why bother? Its presence is known and knocking it down gives an indication of high altitude defence capability.
I wonder if it can be recovered with the instrument package relatively undamaged? If it starts to descend, Messrs Boyle, Archimedes and Newton would normally ensure a fairly hard bump on arrival.
Not that I think shooting it down is worth the candle.
Would a missile really be necessary? Wouldn’t a couple of short bursts of cannon-fire over a suitable area deflate the balloon(s) sufficiently to make it descend to earth? Seems a safer option.
Do they have an aircraft with a cannon capable of such a feat. Perhaps an F-18 or F-16 would suffice.
Would a missile really be necessary? Wouldn’t a couple of short bursts of cannon-fire over a suitable area deflate the balloon(s) sufficiently to make it descend to earth? Seems a safer option.
Do they have an aircraft with a cannon capable of such a feat. Perhaps an F-18 or F-16 would suffice.
Last edited by albatross; 3rd Feb 2023 at 16:03.
Originally Posted by melmothtw
I'm guessing that was for known satellite orbits, rather than for a balloon that no one saw coming.
Last edited by Ninthace; 3rd Feb 2023 at 16:43.
Boyle already ensured it would rise to that altitude and stay there. A slow leak would work, even by diffusion though the balloon envelope and Boyle might see to it that there was a slow return.
It could be from 12 to 24 miles up; If it's at the higher end of that range one will need a really good gun for a fighter to shoot it down. Then there's the rounds falling at random back onto Montana. The density may seem low, but it's sure one will hit the most valuable cow in a herd. Missiles are also a problem as the target one really wants is the balloon, which has not much radar or thermal signature. I checked and the air density at 120k ft is 0.002 that of sea level. Maybe that helps with the rounds from the fighter having less drag?
It could be from 12 to 24 miles up; If it's at the higher end of that range one will need a really good gun for a fighter to shoot it down. Then there's the rounds falling at random back onto Montana. The density may seem low, but it's sure one will hit the most valuable cow in a herd. Missiles are also a problem as the target one really wants is the balloon, which has not much radar or thermal signature. I checked and the air density at 120k ft is 0.002 that of sea level. Maybe that helps with the rounds from the fighter having less drag?
Tabs please !
Originally Posted by ETOPS
Stand down - it's a weather balloon 
Albeit flying some 60,000 feet above any weather. As it will be static w.r.t. the air mass that it is moving in, what's the point ?
Originally Posted by MechEngr
Boyle already ensured it would rise to that altitude and stay there. A slow leak would work, even by diffusion though the balloon envelope and Boyle might see to it that there was a slow return.
It could be from 12 to 24 miles up; If it's at the higher end of that range one will need a really good gun for a fighter to shoot it down. Then there's the rounds falling at random back onto Montana. The density may seem low, but it's sure one will hit the most valuable cow in a herd. Missiles are also a problem as the target one really wants is the balloon, which has not much radar or thermal signature. I checked and the air density at 120k ft is 0.002 that of sea level. Maybe that helps with the rounds from the fighter having less drag?
It could be from 12 to 24 miles up; If it's at the higher end of that range one will need a really good gun for a fighter to shoot it down. Then there's the rounds falling at random back onto Montana. The density may seem low, but it's sure one will hit the most valuable cow in a herd. Missiles are also a problem as the target one really wants is the balloon, which has not much radar or thermal signature. I checked and the air density at 120k ft is 0.002 that of sea level. Maybe that helps with the rounds from the fighter having less drag?
Originally Posted by Ninthace
I beg to differ. As it loses buoyancy Archimedes loses the battle with Newton. As it descends increasing pressure, courtesy of Boyle, will compress the fixed mass of gas further decreasing the buoyancy and accelerating the descent and resulting in a fearsome bump. The only question is would the rising temperature at lower altitude bring Mr Charles to the rescue?
Maybe these balloons will become a common sight -- probably Europe/UK next on the target list -- if that's possible.
Forget gunboat diplomacy -- balloons are cheaper.
Forget gunboat diplomacy -- balloons are cheaper.
Last edited by Chock Puller; 3rd Feb 2023 at 18:44. Reason: Politics belongs in Jet Blast.
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Unless anyone knows better: there is nothing of consequence a balloon can see that a satellite cannot see, and the US forces can likely listen in to any radio transmissions from the balloon, gaining intelligence on Chinese encryption. Yes, it's cheeky of the Chinese, but if the balloon were a serious threat it would be shot down. I suspect US can gain more than it loses by observing it and listening to its transmissions. Anyone in a position to know for sure is unlikely to post answers here.
I don't think it anything to do with intelligence gathering just a way of putting a weed up the administration.
Its a cheap way way to get the worlds attention and difficult to counter without either looking weak or stupid (if the US failed in an attempt to shoot it down).
Its a cheap way way to get the worlds attention and difficult to counter without either looking weak or stupid (if the US failed in an attempt to shoot it down).
Last edited by Chock Puller; 3rd Feb 2023 at 18:41. Reason: Politics belongs in Jet Blast.
Originally Posted by 911slf
Unless anyone knows better: there is nothing of consequence a balloon can see that a satellite cannot see, and the US forces can likely listen in to any radio transmissions from the balloon, gaining intelligence on Chinese encryption. Yes, it's cheeky of the Chinese, but if the balloon were a serious threat it would be shot down. I suspect US can gain more than it loses by observing it and listening to its transmissions. Anyone in a position to know for sure is unlikely to post answers here.
Either way, the USA has previously run a number of balloon based intelligence programmes (e.g. Genetrix) , some of which overflew China. Of course they are within their rights to shoot the thing down, but the outrage seems a little hard to justify given the history.
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Origin?
Did it have "made in China" written on the side? Couldn't be from Russia or North Korea? Could it be that the respective government actually did not know?
Or something like the Bay of Pigs fiasco?
In the UK, I haven't seen or heard anything regarding how the "ownership" was determined?
Just asking. May have missed a news report ot two.
Or something like the Bay of Pigs fiasco?
In the UK, I haven't seen or heard anything regarding how the "ownership" was determined?
Just asking. May have missed a news report ot two.
Originally Posted by 70 Mustang
Just asking. May have missed a news report ot two.
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/liv...685112a0bbb60a
