Chinese spy balloon over US
From the BBC:
USAF taking potshots at balloon causes politicians to take potshots at the President. Yet another example of the depressing nature of politicians these days.
I’m sure Mayor Bethune would have been more than concerned if the balloon had been shot down over land and killed one of her constituents.
Republican politicians. meanwhile, accused US President Joe Biden of a dereliction of duty for allowing the balloon to traverse the country unhindered.
Marco Rubio, vice-chair of the Senate intelligence committee, told CNN it was a "brazen effort" by China to embarrass the president ahead of his State of the Union address on Tuesday.
Brenda Bethune, the mayor of Myrtle Beach which is near to where the object was shot down, said: "I do have concerns about how the federal government can allow a foreign adversary to fly uninterrupted from Montana to our doorstep."
She said she hoped the government would explain how this happened and how they will prevent it from happening again.
Marco Rubio, vice-chair of the Senate intelligence committee, told CNN it was a "brazen effort" by China to embarrass the president ahead of his State of the Union address on Tuesday.
Brenda Bethune, the mayor of Myrtle Beach which is near to where the object was shot down, said: "I do have concerns about how the federal government can allow a foreign adversary to fly uninterrupted from Montana to our doorstep."
She said she hoped the government would explain how this happened and how they will prevent it from happening again.
I’m sure Mayor Bethune would have been more than concerned if the balloon had been shot down over land and killed one of her constituents.
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I still think it must have been transmitting in real time, after all how else could China guarantee a successful landing of a balloon, we have moved on from From Ice Station Zebra and little capsules with film reels inside them.
We all know that the Chinese play the long game. I doubt anything of value would be found in the wreckage. The balloon could have served many functions, but perhaps one of them is merely a trial to test the potential of future Balloon raids using prevailing winds. The Japanese ineffective fire raids are well known, but what is less well known is the successful British Balloon raids on Germany during World War ii. Certainly the most cost effective bombing campaign of the war. Balloons with wire attachments, sometimes with a small charge. They caused a lot of damage to crops during the summer as well as bringing down power and telephone lines and even destroying a power station on one occasion. There were numerous German forces (civilian and military) tied down in trying to contain and mitigate the damage. They were dispatched by WAAF's (I may be incorrect on this but it was certainly women from one of the Forces) of whom I think at least one died. The damage caused was out of all proportion to the effort and cost involved. They simply used prevailing winds. I think Churchill urged caution in case the Germans retaliated, but it would be very rare indeed for this to occur simply because there were few, if any, prevailing winds toward the U.K. from Germany. Even the Germans were surprised that Britain did not make more use of them. Obviously they could not be directed and many found their way to neutral Switzerland and beyond who complained bitterly. But if China were to use them on a widespread campaign, for example releasing a million simultaneously, then I am sure it would cause chaos and yet be comparatively cheap to undertake without the need of modern weaponry. Just speculation of course, but it is a possibility. Would any country be prepared for that?
Why Ukraine are not using these types of weapon is beyond me..
On a lighter note.....
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I spent 28 years as an airline jock flying into and over China on a regular basis. Observations:
Convoluted air routes to avoid their military bases (not that you could see much as the country is 99% smog).
Sometimes threatening or actually having to declare an emergency in order to get clearance to deviate to avoid thunderstorms.
Narrow, crowded corridors for civvies to fly in with the military controlling the rest of their airspace.
A general impression of a paranoid regime.
My point? I can imagine the squealing from the ChiComms if a huge American ‘weather balloon’ ever overflew their neck of the woods.
Convoluted air routes to avoid their military bases (not that you could see much as the country is 99% smog).
Sometimes threatening or actually having to declare an emergency in order to get clearance to deviate to avoid thunderstorms.
Narrow, crowded corridors for civvies to fly in with the military controlling the rest of their airspace.
A general impression of a paranoid regime.
My point? I can imagine the squealing from the ChiComms if a huge American ‘weather balloon’ ever overflew their neck of the woods.
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Presumably, being a balloon, then like any other balloon it just went where the wind took it?
Balloon pilots are able to use varying winds at different altitudes for directional control (clearly within limitations and not an exact science) and even high-up using Jetstream’s, so for me, the balloons incursion of US airspace was no accident.
Whether it be public/press or government/DoD response to this overfly, there can be no doubt, China will have learnt plenty from this episode.
Balloon pilots are able to use varying winds at different altitudes for directional control (clearly within limitations and not an exact science) and even high-up using Jetstream’s, so for me, the balloons incursion of US airspace was no accident.
Whether it be public/press or government/DoD response to this overfly, there can be no doubt, China will have learnt plenty from this episode.
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Gun door on F-22 can't be opened above a certain height, don't recall exact figure but I believe the balloon was at a higher altitude than this limit. They also wanted to ensure separation of the payload and balloon; this I imagine would've been tricky to achieve with a gun.
"Convoluted air routes to avoid their military bases (not that you could see much as the country is 99% smog).
Sometimes threatening or actually having to declare an emergency in order to get clearance to deviate to avoid thunderstorms.
Narrow, crowded corridors for civvies to fly in with the military controlling the rest of their airspace."
Sounds like the UK in the not so distant past...................
Sometimes threatening or actually having to declare an emergency in order to get clearance to deviate to avoid thunderstorms.
Narrow, crowded corridors for civvies to fly in with the military controlling the rest of their airspace."
Sounds like the UK in the not so distant past...................
Tabs please !
Precisely. Left with low plus right with height only works up to around 2,000 feet at best. Remember your met exams and the geostrophic wind ? Plus you need someone to work the burners and keep an eye on the GPS. Johnny Chinaman seemed not to have included either.
In any case, I found it only worked 70% of the time.
In any case, I found it only worked 70% of the time.
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Gun door on F-22 can't be opened above a certain height, don't recall exact figure but I believe the balloon was at a higher altitude than this limit. They also wanted to ensure separation of the payload and balloon; this I imagine would've been tricky to achieve with a gun.
Precisely. Left with low plus right with height only works up to around 2,000 feet at best. Remember your met exams and the geostrophic wind ? Plus you need someone to work the burners and keep an eye on the GPS. Johnny Chinaman seemed not to have included either.
In any case, I found it only worked 70% of the time.
In any case, I found it only worked 70% of the time.
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Doesn't sound much like a weather balloon.
I read elsewhere that the US doesn't want to shoot it down because they are gaining massive intelligence from their observations.
That being said, photos from 60k ft. could be much more revealing than a spy satellite 100+ miles up... There are several ICBM missile sites in and around Montana...
I read elsewhere that the US doesn't want to shoot it down because they are gaining massive intelligence from their observations.
That being said, photos from 60k ft. could be much more revealing than a spy satellite 100+ miles up... There are several ICBM missile sites in and around Montana...
I can’t really understand what the problem is. How is floating a weather balloon/surveillance balloon over someones airspace any different to having surveillance satellite in a LEO?
I’m pretty sure that if it is >FL600, the there is very little risk. After all, i’d have a guess that the US overflies many other countries >FL600 with both manned and unmanned surveillance systems.
Now, if sovereign airspace had a internationally recognised vertical limit, then this incident would be different.
I’m pretty sure that if it is >FL600, the there is very little risk. After all, i’d have a guess that the US overflies many other countries >FL600 with both manned and unmanned surveillance systems.
Now, if sovereign airspace had a internationally recognised vertical limit, then this incident would be different.
I didn't check, though I can imagine, China's optics quality lags significantly behind Western capabilities. With, the consequence, a significantly lower image resolution for their spy photo's is obtained. (Can be a lot of pixels, though, when the optics aren't delivering a clear image to the optical sensor, all those extra pixels tend to be without value).
Moving the optics+camera to 60-70K feet altitude, will make the resulting resolution significantly higher. Western optics+camera's get to the point, so to say, the photo's show scratch marks on the mounting screws of the car number plates and Chinese stuff is finally able to read the car number plates.
Not to forget, the (near vacuum) atmosphere between 60-70K feet and 300+km gives (how minimal) optic distortion, which is avoided, when the optics+camera are dangling under a balloon.
So, yep, such a spy balloon does have its spy advantages.
Given the size of what is dangling below the balloon (with quite a lot of solar panels, implying significant equipment power consumption), this balloon might be more than just regular weather measurements with a radio for home communication. Data processing for weather measurements is done "at home", not in the air.
Equipment to think about, given the amount of solar panels:
- Operating environment stabilizing equipment (Thermally, humidity, vibration and the like).
- High power transmitting equipment, required for high-volume data transfers.
- (Limited) flight-path-control options, IE electric engines + batteries.
These are items not so often associated with weather balloons.
How does a near vacuum cause optical distortion?
If it is a runaway "Weather Balloon" as we are told that China claims, the surely the Chinese should be thanking the US for removing a potential threat to aviation, which would surely be the case as the balloon's altitude eventually decays !
El Grifo
El Grifo
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