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F35 pilots -

Old 2nd Nov 2022, 12:10
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F35 pilots -

- rarer than rocking horse ****

news.sky.com/story/uk-has-more-f-35-fast-jets-than-pilots-to-fly-them-ben-wallace-admits-12735825

23 jets in the UK, more than 1 per pilot. Interesting that "the defence secretary described the situation as "quite a challenge", claiming that the deficit in pilots was also because the F-35 Lightning aircraft is new" What is his definition of new ?

Have China got more aircrew than we have?

(Mods, feel free to move to one of the other threads on F35 or training if you feel its more relevant)

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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 12:55
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If only there were a solution.

Can someone tell me what would happen in industry if there were a critical shortage of highly skilled people in a key role?

You can give any answer you like as long as it doesnít involve money. Because itís not about the money.

BV
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 13:49
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Can someone tell me what would happen in industry if there were a critical shortage of highly skilled people in a key role?

BV
They bring them in from abroad?
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 13:54
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Saintsman

Excellent answer. Maybe thatís the solution.

Perhaps the second part of my question should be what would happen in industry to prevent those highly qualified individuals that you already have from leaving?

The answer must still not involve money. Because money is not the answer.

BV
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 13:55
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Can someone tell me what would happen in industry if there were a critical shortage of highly skilled people in a key role?

You can give any answer you like as long as it doesnít involve money. Because itís not about the money.

BV
Industry would first attempt to poach someone else's experts and if unsuccessful, then try with the inexpert. Finally they would make an attempt to find an alternative which did not need the experts.

N
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 13:57
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Bengo

Another excellent answer but poaching sounds awfully expensive. That sounds suspiciously like you are suggesting that money is the answer. But that canít be right. Because we have been repeatedly told that money is not the answer.

Iím so confused.

BV
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 14:19
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I flew the C-130 back in the early seventies. I volunteer. It can't be that hard....can it? . That doesn't involve money, Bob; I'll do it for free.
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 14:43
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What is the salary of a fast jet pilot?
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 14:52
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Originally Posted by Bengo View Post
Industry would first attempt to poach someone else's experts and if unsuccessful, then try with the inexpert. Finally they would make an attempt to find an alternative which did not need the experts.

N
This is so true.

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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 14:55
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Originally Posted by Bengo View Post
Industry would first attempt to poach someone else's experts and if unsuccessful, then try with the inexpert. Finally they would make an attempt to find an alternative which did not need the experts.

N
Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Another excellent answer but poaching sounds awfully expensive. That sounds suspiciously like you are suggesting that money is the answer. But that canít be right. Because we have been repeatedly told that money is not the answer.

Iím so confused.

BV
Poaching is awfully expensive, which is why, although that's the first route, the bean counters demands on the purse strings usually means 9 times out of 10, that the poaching option falls at the first hurdle.....and thus the move to Option 2 begins.....
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 15:09
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Originally Posted by Bengo View Post
Industry would first attempt to poach someone else's experts and if unsuccessful, then try with the inexpert. Finally they would make an attempt to find an alternative which did not need the experts
No, no. That's such a twentieth-century solution. You get the marketing department to produce a lavishly illustrated brochure showing how lean 'n' mean your organisation is and explaining why the number of pilots you have has been carefully optimised by world-class experts to be a perfect match to the number of airframes. In passing the brochure greenwashes the very low carbon footprint of the airframes, claims that they only use biomass-derived non-fossil fuel and can be fully recycled at the end of their lives. And so on and so forth ad nauseam.
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 15:13
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I could get some hovering practice in with the Tiger Moth with today’s wind!

Mog
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 15:38
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Originally Posted by Bengo View Post
Industry would first attempt to poach someone else's experts and if unsuccessful, then try with the inexpert. Finally they would make an attempt to find an alternative which did not need the experts.

N
In my experience, the number1 option is to subcontract out - the best results come from organisations which employ our former colleagues! Those that don't take a lot of additional recovery work.
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 16:12
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From what I hear, if it’s not about money, it’s about quality of life. Pilots (aircrew) have lost their status, their admin and support. Getting their leave allocation is rare as is time at home. They are submerged by trivia to such an extent that they have to regularly work 12 plus hour days despite only flying 6-10 hours a month. The pilots I know would forgo a pay rise if some of the QOL issues could be fixed.
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 16:32
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UK Defence Secretary > HCDC just now - 33 F-35B pilots for 27 aircraft (including 3 x foreign - 1 x USAF / 1 x USMC / 1 x RAAF).

Only 13 of these are on the 12-aircraft front-line squadron (617 Sqn).

My comment: This of course is not only way below required NATO standards but insufficient for 24 hour ops + flying supervision.

On F-35B deliveries, it will take until 2025 to get 48 and "end of the decade" to get 74 [my comment: by comparison, RAAF will have all its 72 x F-35A by 2023].

On training pipeline:

Pilots holding for Valley AFT going backwards - now 51 vs 38 when CAS told 3 years ago to sort it - 9 holding post AFT for OCU - pilot entry hold down from 120 3 years ago > 25 now.

HCDC wants to see CAS ASAP.


Parliamentlive.tv - Defence Committee
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 16:47
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Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
From what I hear, if itís not about money, itís about quality of life. Pilots (aircrew) have lost their status, their admin and support. Getting their leave allocation is rare as is time at home. They are submerged by trivia to such an extent that they have to regularly work 12 plus hour days despite only flying 6-10 hours a month. The pilots I know would forgo a pay rise if some of the QOL issues could be fixed.
But how do you fix the QOL issues without money? Which isn't the answer.
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 17:04
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Originally Posted by Bing View Post
But how do you fix the QOL issues without money? Which isn't the answer.
Ban anyone in the admin branch from e mailing squadron aircrew?
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 17:09
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Can someone tell me what would happen in industry if there were a critical shortage of highly skilled people in a key role?

You can give any answer you like as long as it doesnít involve money. Because itís not about the money.

BV
It is partly about money, because in the scenario you describe, industry would 'beat the problem to death with dollars'!

CG
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 17:15
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careful folks - anyone from the Treasury reading this thread will think the obvious answer is to scrap the excess airframes....................
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Old 2nd Nov 2022, 17:18
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Of course an interesting question might be the relative ratio of pilots:aircraft between different fleets.

are, for example, young pilots being allocated on an equitable basis between F35 and Typhoon?
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