RAF to deploy to civvy airports
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Some years ago I flew to Exeter in a C130 and was parked on the disused runway. Even longer ago I had flown with Exeter Flying Club when I first had my PPL and for old times sake wandered over to their clubhouse to say hello. My old CFI, who was pretty aged when I had flown there, was still the CFI and he asked if he could see my aircraft to which I happily agreed. We wandered back over along with another club instructor and I had just started the tour when an airport security vehicle arrived and said ‘they aren’t allowed here!’ I replied that it was my aircraft and I had invited them so it was all right but security insisted that I wasn’t allowed to invite them.
The old CFI then told security to ‘stop being a silly jobsworth’ and promptly was arrested, along with the other FI for good measure. At which point I decided we were task complete and should really be getting back to EGDL.
As an aside although Exeter Flying Club folded some years ago the CFI was only grounded by the CAA at around the age of 90 having worked for another club at the airport.
The old CFI then told security to ‘stop being a silly jobsworth’ and promptly was arrested, along with the other FI for good measure. At which point I decided we were task complete and should really be getting back to EGDL.
As an aside although Exeter Flying Club folded some years ago the CFI was only grounded by the CAA at around the age of 90 having worked for another club at the airport.
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I'm sorry, but this is the world that civilian airfields that handle commercial passengers have to live in. The security companies have to be internally audited for compliance by their own management and externally by airport management; security provision is then subject to regulatory oversight, which will pick up on the slightest infringement, reviewing documentary records, bodycam recordings, and CCTV. This results in airports having to provide a corrective action plan for any infringement or lapse, and could cost the security provider a 'fine' under the T&Cs of its contract with the airport. Given that the contract price will have been driven down to minimum by airports striving to make money and security providers desperate to obtain the contract. Common sense or convenient workarounds are not an option.
Would deploying Military to civilian locations, make those locations valid military targets?
I guess when the next war starts, it won't make any difference. Putin has no respect for civilians as he has so aptly demonstrated.
I guess when the next war starts, it won't make any difference. Putin has no respect for civilians as he has so aptly demonstrated.
A400 doing circuits at Finningley yesterday and considering the fact that Doncaster/Sheffield Airport is on the verge of closure due to lack of flights.
With an increased budget for defense perhaps it's time to reconsider recovering some of these old bases.
IG
With an increased budget for defense perhaps it's time to reconsider recovering some of these old bases.
IG
Flying operations could co-exist, albeit in the case of civil airports the military RTF phraseology and circuit SOPs are very different to their civilian equivalents, and it is likely that civil ATC would have had little exposure to, knowledge of, or training in military procedures. I'm not sure how the commercials would react to having their arrivals and departures impacted by the military doing their run and breaks.
In the case of Belfast, because the civil and military infrastructures are on different sides of the airfield, they can be adequately segregated.
In the case of Belfast, because the civil and military infrastructures are on different sides of the airfield, they can be adequately segregated.
(NB: I did post a more detailed explanation about Sculthorpe yesterday but it would appear I was censored - or is the word nowadays 'redacted'?)
IIRC from the Cold War UK planning always assumed that Heathrow would be hit early. Of course these days you wouldn't bother - its so screwed up nothing could operate from it anyway
So many pearl clutchers in this thread, guess what combined military and civilian airports exist. I have actually worked at one, I had both a civilian "airside security pass" and a military identification. The reason military just cant walk around free in the sterile part of an airport is that is that military are considered to have the same level of criminality as civiians. Hell there are posters here in this forum smugging about how they imported cigarettes and possibly other illegal **** into the UK, 'back in the day'. Thats why getting my airside security pass for sterile civilian areas was way more difficult that my military security pass
So what exactly are those hundreds of departures and arrivals doing soaring over my head 7 days a week then?
"So what exactly are those hundreds of departures and arrivals doing soaring over my head 7 days a week then?"
the sad remnant of a great plan - there should be THOUSANDS, darkening the sky. BA keep mailing me with offers while cancelling flights I actually might want to take...............
the sad remnant of a great plan - there should be THOUSANDS, darkening the sky. BA keep mailing me with offers while cancelling flights I actually might want to take...............
Just thought of another; the runway at Woodbridge is kept in good nick by the Army although some of the other bits are a bit overgrown.
Last edited by chevvron; 10th Sep 2022 at 09:17.
Bentwaters is also looking quite good. As many will remember it was used at least once by the Harrier force for a dispersed base exercise, as was St Mawgan.
They could also use Norwich, although, if wanting fuel, would have to give way to the offshore helicopters, who seem to get priority!
They could also use Norwich, although, if wanting fuel, would have to give way to the offshore helicopters, who seem to get priority!
Looking at it the other way, don't forget that civil flying at Farnborough started in a fenced off enclave at Farnborough in 1989 whilst MOD test flying was still in operation.
We had remote controlled gates (operated from the control tower a mile away) to keep these civvies penned in to their own security cordon on the south side of the airfield, only opening them to allow aircraft to go in and out. This meant that if the airfield was closed, the civil traffic could not operate which rather annoyed a certain Mr R Maxwell who often wanted to just fly off somewhere on a whim at weekends so the aircraft had to moved to another airfield during these periods.
Course when we were able to extend our operating hours, this didn't matter as much and eventually when MOD flying moved out, it was a free for all with the civil operators quickly getting permission to use other parts of the airfield such as West Area.
We had remote controlled gates (operated from the control tower a mile away) to keep these civvies penned in to their own security cordon on the south side of the airfield, only opening them to allow aircraft to go in and out. This meant that if the airfield was closed, the civil traffic could not operate which rather annoyed a certain Mr R Maxwell who often wanted to just fly off somewhere on a whim at weekends so the aircraft had to moved to another airfield during these periods.
Course when we were able to extend our operating hours, this didn't matter as much and eventually when MOD flying moved out, it was a free for all with the civil operators quickly getting permission to use other parts of the airfield such as West Area.
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I never got the chance to check that out....
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I remember landing at Newcastle in a GR1 in 1991; a security officer escorted us to a combination-locked door leading to the apron, but walked off without opening it. He was about five yards away when he realised, turned and shouted "The access number is **** - it's **** in all UK civvy airports".....
I never got the chance to check that out....
I never got the chance to check that out....
It's always worth a punt.
I had been at the Sqn a few days before to complete the joining procedures so I knew that the combination for the main entrance was, as ‘The Helpful Stacker’ stated ***. Strangely enough, this was the same combination at nearly every flying station that I had been at!
As I was unloading the second part of the kit, my old man went on ahead, tapped in ***, and opened the door! ‘How the ‘flip’ did you do that?!? His reply, *** is the factory setting! He had fitted enough of them in his day to know that the factory code was rarely changed!
In my, and undoubtedly other aircrew’s naïveté, we all thought that *** had been selected as it was a ‘well remembered and useful’ radio frequency!!! Obviously not!!!