RAF to deploy to civvy airports
Join Date: Oct 2001
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You're joking right? Some jobsworth would no doubt say military personnel aren't adaquately security cleared to go near a civil apron or terminal.
The best the RAF will likely see is a couple of hastily dragged in Portacabins at the far end of the airport, a flaky piece of concrete to park the a/c on and horror bags driven in from the closest MOB by a contracted in taxi driver.
The best the RAF will likely see is a couple of hastily dragged in Portacabins at the far end of the airport, a flaky piece of concrete to park the a/c on and horror bags driven in from the closest MOB by a contracted in taxi driver.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I'm afraid it's not a jobsworth, it is the law. There is no way a UK airport operator can compromise the integrity of the Critical Part of its Security Restricted Area by enabling the kind of flexibility that would support a military operation. No liquids or gels (exactly what is a yoghurt...?), permitted tools only, no weapons, explosives or pyrotechnics, personnel screening inbound, long waiting times for security pass issue..... As alluded to above, a potential airport would need to provide a dedicated enclave with its own access that could be completely segregated from the airport operation....a flaky bit of concrete that is not earning money as a car park, probably.
And not a scintilla of real security around it's perimeter present or possible. Unlike the airliners across the apron, fat, dumb and happy under total immunity from hostile yoghurt, mineral water and cold rice pudding.
Jobsworth at a civil airport....oh please do go on!
While towing a Huey Helicopter...Tug with flashing lights, Head Lights, and two of us assisting the driver.....me holding the Tail Stinger of the helicopter to prevent the tail end of the skid landing gear from dragging.....the Airport Plod accosted me for not having a Hi-Vis Vest about my person.
The explanation that there would scant chance of me gietting hit due to that small thing I was holding in my hands first getting in the way did not sit well with Plod who insisted the operation stop immediately....smack in the center of the Ramp until I was suitably attired....posing a much greater risk meant nothing to him.
He got very perplexed when I asked how I was to go fetch said Hi-Vis Vest....walk without one to the hangar to fetch one.....drop the tow bar and ride the Tug leaving the helicopter in the middle of the ramp and stopping airplane traffic until we could return and move it....me stay beside the aircraft and send the Tug and the other guy.....or just use some commonsense and continue what we were doing and swear on my Sainted Mother's Grave never to commit such a similar sin ever again. Watching him ponder those options with wrinkled brow and his finger to his lip....and not knowing what to say was a pleasure I shall have to atone for one day. Finally, a radio call to him from some voice....asking him why the helicopter was not moving stirred him to tell us to continue as is....and off he strode.
They do live among us!
While towing a Huey Helicopter...Tug with flashing lights, Head Lights, and two of us assisting the driver.....me holding the Tail Stinger of the helicopter to prevent the tail end of the skid landing gear from dragging.....the Airport Plod accosted me for not having a Hi-Vis Vest about my person.
The explanation that there would scant chance of me gietting hit due to that small thing I was holding in my hands first getting in the way did not sit well with Plod who insisted the operation stop immediately....smack in the center of the Ramp until I was suitably attired....posing a much greater risk meant nothing to him.
He got very perplexed when I asked how I was to go fetch said Hi-Vis Vest....walk without one to the hangar to fetch one.....drop the tow bar and ride the Tug leaving the helicopter in the middle of the ramp and stopping airplane traffic until we could return and move it....me stay beside the aircraft and send the Tug and the other guy.....or just use some commonsense and continue what we were doing and swear on my Sainted Mother's Grave never to commit such a similar sin ever again. Watching him ponder those options with wrinkled brow and his finger to his lip....and not knowing what to say was a pleasure I shall have to atone for one day. Finally, a radio call to him from some voice....asking him why the helicopter was not moving stirred him to tell us to continue as is....and off he strode.
They do live among us!
You're joking right? Some jobsworth would no doubt say military personnel aren't adaquately security cleared to go near a civil apron or terminal.
The best the RAF will likely see is a couple of hastily dragged in Portacabins at the far end of the airport, a flaky piece of concrete to park the a/c on and horror bags driven in from the closest MOB by a contracted in taxi driver.
The best the RAF will likely see is a couple of hastily dragged in Portacabins at the far end of the airport, a flaky piece of concrete to park the a/c on and horror bags driven in from the closest MOB by a contracted in taxi driver.
I diverted to Newcastle in a Chinook while on exercise. We were all tooled up with SA80 and pistols. We went into the terminal to speak to the handling agent, our gats carefully concealed to avoid alarming the public. All went well until we wanted to return to the cab. The security guy insisted that that we put all our bags and anything metallic through the scanner. His face was a picture as we piled our little arsenal onto his conveyor belt!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
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This goes equally for all the other 'mothballed' airfields folks seem to think could be used.
Yes it's possible to deploy various tankers and/or EBFI assets to such airfields but, for many reasons, these are far from desirable options.
You're joking right? Some jobsworth would no doubt say military personnel aren't adaquately security cleared to go near a civil apron or terminal.
The best the RAF will likely see is a couple of hastily dragged in Portacabins at the far end of the airport, a flaky piece of concrete to park the a/c on and horror bags driven in from the closest MOB by a contracted in taxi driver.
The best the RAF will likely see is a couple of hastily dragged in Portacabins at the far end of the airport, a flaky piece of concrete to park the a/c on and horror bags driven in from the closest MOB by a contracted in taxi driver.
You make a very good point. Earlier this year, the Home Office introduced enhanced background checks on ALL airport staff in the UK because of very real concerns about the insider threat. This has, unfortunately, compounded the workforce problems at major airports as some returning staff and new recruits either did not pass background checks or, indeed, refused to undertake them (working different jobs under assumed names, fibbing to HMRC, outstanding warrants in other jurisdictions, etc). It would be interesting to see if CTC and SC checks - typically applied to SP - are adequate to meet HO requirements (without getting into vetting discussions in open forum, vetting standards across government, along with transferability, remains a challenge).
What sort of scenario are we looking at here?
A strike that takes out current UK military airfields but leaves civi ones working?
Seems unlikely..............................
A strike that takes out current UK military airfields but leaves civi ones working?
Seems unlikely..............................
Ideas from those that never tried hard at school. That is being diplomatic. Never watched Threads I bet as they were in the NAFFI getting hammered.
Despite being very very close to Gatwick and its single runway, Crawley Borough Council ensured its survival in the Cold War by erecting signs on the town's outskirts proclaiming it to be a nuclear free zone. One has to admit that it worked, though whether that be counted as success or not depends on your point of view of course (and your post code).
Am not military and not a pilot, but, having recently flown from Belfast International Airport, I noticed a military base (presumably RAF?) and number of military aircraft sited on the other side of the airfield plus the landing of a large military transport plane. So it seems that the RAF can manage to coexist with civilian air transport, at least in Northern Ireland. But perhaps someone more qualified than I can shed more light on this?
Am not military and not a pilot, but, having recently flown from Belfast International Airport, I noticed a military base (presumably RAF?) and number of military aircraft sited on the other side of the airfield plus the landing of a large military transport plane. So it seems that the RAF can manage to coexist with civilian air transport, at least in Northern Ireland. But perhaps someone more qualified than I can shed more light on this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfas...tional_Airport
T'other way around lotw, it has been a military base since 1917 with civilian operations joining in 1922, later temporarily diverted to Nutts Corner. See Wiki :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfas...tional_Airport
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfas...tional_Airport
or is this some kind of semantic- pargmatic language disorder appendange waving competition ?
obviously the runways will have been resurfaced and likely extended ( see the Bow at Scampton) and theirunway numbers are likely to have changed due to the magnetic polar drift ...
Wyton is the same with fences and other obstructions although probably less hassle to return to an operational base than Thurleigh, as a lot of it is still MOD.
Wattisham being AAC would be the easiest one to get back into a fit state you would have thought if push came to shove, and probably Leuchars??
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In the case of Belfast, because the civil and military infrastructures are on different sides of the airfield, they can be adequately segregated.
In Germany many moons ago, the Harriers operated very effectively from a grass strip owned by the local model aircraft club. I seem to recall that it was around 250m long and was quite adequate - no security problems either!! Unfortunately JL had a donk stop on takeoff, which rather ruined the maize crop in the overshoot. 🙂
Mog
Mog
Jobsworth at a civil airport....oh please do go on!
While towing a Huey Helicopter...Tug with flashing lights, Head Lights, and two of us assisting the driver.....me holding the Tail Stinger of the helicopter to prevent the tail end of the skid landing gear from dragging.....the Airport Plod accosted me for not having a Hi-Vis Vest about my person.
The explanation that there would scant chance of me gietting hit due to that small thing I was holding in my hands first getting in the way did not sit well with Plod who insisted the operation stop immediately....smack in the center of the Ramp until I was suitably attired....posing a much greater risk meant nothing to him.
He got very perplexed when I asked how I was to go fetch said Hi-Vis Vest....walk without one to the hangar to fetch one.....drop the tow bar and ride the Tug leaving the helicopter in the middle of the ramp and stopping airplane traffic until we could return and move it....me stay beside the aircraft and send the Tug and the other guy.....or just use some commonsense and continue what we were doing and swear on my Sainted Mother's Grave never to commit such a similar sin ever again. Watching him ponder those options with wrinkled brow and his finger to his lip....and not knowing what to say was a pleasure I shall have to atone for one day. Finally, a radio call to him from some voice....asking him why the helicopter was not moving stirred him to tell us to continue as is....and off he strode.
They do live among us!
While towing a Huey Helicopter...Tug with flashing lights, Head Lights, and two of us assisting the driver.....me holding the Tail Stinger of the helicopter to prevent the tail end of the skid landing gear from dragging.....the Airport Plod accosted me for not having a Hi-Vis Vest about my person.
The explanation that there would scant chance of me gietting hit due to that small thing I was holding in my hands first getting in the way did not sit well with Plod who insisted the operation stop immediately....smack in the center of the Ramp until I was suitably attired....posing a much greater risk meant nothing to him.
He got very perplexed when I asked how I was to go fetch said Hi-Vis Vest....walk without one to the hangar to fetch one.....drop the tow bar and ride the Tug leaving the helicopter in the middle of the ramp and stopping airplane traffic until we could return and move it....me stay beside the aircraft and send the Tug and the other guy.....or just use some commonsense and continue what we were doing and swear on my Sainted Mother's Grave never to commit such a similar sin ever again. Watching him ponder those options with wrinkled brow and his finger to his lip....and not knowing what to say was a pleasure I shall have to atone for one day. Finally, a radio call to him from some voice....asking him why the helicopter was not moving stirred him to tell us to continue as is....and off he strode.
They do live among us!
No no, they have to be searched, and all their kit and tools too. They bring them out and are “searched” there and then, by the search manny who has been summoned. They walk the 30 yds, one of them realises he’s left a bag on the ground, and steps back over the line to get it. You’d think he’s trying to penetrate the cordon around Air Force One the way she went off. She made him wait while not only this bag, which had already just been searched, was searched again, but he had to be searched again too.
Then one had to go back for another tool. Stuff this, aircraft is pushed over the red line on to the sane side so they can work on it without this nonsense. I need to go talk to my pax, but I have unwittingly strayed over the line. I have to be searched again, but search manny has wandered off, and she can’t do it so we have to wait for him to come back, then she escorts me into the terminal via some labyrinth route that avoids the single door between airside and the passenger lounge*, then threatens me with all sorts of retribution if I were to try to go back airside without going to see her highness first. No dramas says I, I’ll just go outside up the road. After the third degree about how thoroughly the company staff will inspect my ID and search my body cavities on arrival in our own company base, this is permitted (not sure how she was going to stop me).
Aircraft deemed totally tech, new aircraft dispatched to pick up passengers, but how are we going to get their bags from aircraft #1 to aircraft #2. Apparently, the pax must walk up to our company base, retrieve bags from aircraft #1, carry them back down to terminal and go through security again. Like f*ck they are, passengers were boarded there, aircraft taxied 20 yds further up the apron, but most importantly OVER THE RED LINE, where we moved the bags from #1 to #2, smiling at her while she stood there shaking with impotent rage.
All this at a small airport in the Shetlands, which was protected on all sides by an impenetrable barrier comprising a 3 foot wooden fence. Later, she tried to get entry to company base to complain about our seeming insouciance for her security empire. The staff there demanded her ID before they would even let her through the door. She didn’t have it. They threw her off company property. Excellent.
* if you went at the weekend when she wasn’t on, you could go from airside to lounge just by opening the door. To come the other way, you just knocked, and the staff would let you through..
Last edited by PlasticCabDriver; 6th Sep 2022 at 15:49.
