Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

RAF to deploy to civvy airports

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

RAF to deploy to civvy airports

Old 30th Aug 2022, 12:16
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,815
Received 76 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by vascodegama
proone

I am entitled to my view as much as you I would say.

Have you checked the status of the numerous airfields that you mentioned? The chances of them all being available as airfields is debateable , not only that but is the runway length sufficient for large ac anyway. Add to that fuel supplies etc and the problems get worse.

Why did the system even look at the dispersal to civilian airfields in the first place?
You certainly are entitled to your view, what you are not entitled to is to decide what is, and what isn't, the point of other posters! The status of the MoD owned sites obviously varies, but we are talking about emergency use. I imagine the system looked at dispersal to civilian airfields for the same reasons that the RAF did the same thing in 1940, they are not on any existing target list, and there are far more of them!
pr00ne is online now  
Old 30th Aug 2022, 14:02
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wildest Surrey
Age: 74
Posts: 10,164
Received 34 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by pr00ne
Who are you to decide what is and isn't the point? We have loads of runways available in this country. Apart from the existing RAF frontline airfields, there are all of the 22 Group airfields and relief landing grounds, the RN and AAC airfields, and then, before you even get anywhere near civilian airfields, are the existing MoD airfields not in current active aviation use such as Dishforth, Topcliffe, Cottesmore, Chivenor, Honington, Kinloss, Colerne, Hullavington, Little Rissington, Brawdy, Linton On Ouse, Scampton, Lyneham, etc etc etc. All of these could be dispersal runways used in a genuine emergency before you even start to consider the numerous civilian airfields up and down the land. This would complicate massively any possible (and extremely unlikely) Russian cruise missile/ballistic missile barrage against existing RAF and USAF airfields in this country.
Delete Hullavington add Wyton and Ternhill.
Turnhouse used to have barriers when Leuchars was active but I don't think the equipment is still there.
Upper Heyford and Thurleigh could be cleared.
There are aslo several grass airfields like Halton and Henlow but probably too short for most deployments.
chevvron is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2022, 16:38
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 3 Posts
I am guessing (and hoping) that the staff Officers have examined the options of MOD stock and consider dispersal to civilian airfields as a better option- particularly for large ac.
vascodegama is online now  
Old 30th Aug 2022, 21:19
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 309
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
'pr00ne' : That is an impressive looking list, however 'nine Typhoon squadrons'?
Actually there are five 'front line' , plus OCU, test & eval, aggressor trg provision and a joint sqn helping another nation work up on type.

The Hawk T2 is a very capable machine, but its role in the RAF is clearly stated as a training one only.

I understand the overall point you were making, but over-egging the pudding really doesn't help it!
biscuit74 is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2022, 22:15
  #45 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Age: 62
Posts: 1,753
Received 29 Likes on 18 Posts
Every Defence review since the end of the Cold War has sought to contract the existing defence posture. The SDSR of 2010 was driven by the austerity measures I don't think that actual defence and security considerations have ever prevailed in any review since, it didn't in many conducted through the cold war. Each one arrives at the same conclusion, less means more, rather than the obvious less means less.

FB
Finningley Boy is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 06:40
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,815
Received 76 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by biscuit74
'pr00ne' : That is an impressive looking list, however 'nine Typhoon squadrons'?
Actually there are five 'front line' , plus OCU, test & eval, aggressor trg provision and a joint sqn helping another nation work up on type.

The Hawk T2 is a very capable machine, but its role in the RAF is clearly stated as a training one only.

I understand the overall point you were making, but over-egging the pudding really doesn't help it!
Itís not over egging! There ARE 7 front line Typhoon Squadrons (1,2,3,6 9,11 and 12), 1 OCU squadron (29) and 1 OEU Squadron (41).
You try telling the OC and crews of those squadrons you mention that they are not front line operational!

I agree totally that the Hawk T2 Squadrons are certainly training, but I never claimed any different. In point of fact I should really add 1 Hawk T1 Squadron, with an Aerobatic Display, Trials Support and Aviation Medicine role.

pr00ne is online now  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 10:17
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 1,061
Received 38 Likes on 12 Posts
Hmmmm...

I'm not sure we can class 12 Sqn as front line - are we really going to deploy what is basically a Qatari training Sqn anywhere other than Qatar for this world cup?

And 9 Sqn are "red air" and slated to disband aren't they - they don't fit in the Ops plot so arguably aren't first line either!
downsizer is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 12:23
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,524
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Isn't this old news?

RAF Fast Jets To Practice Dispersal Off MOBs
Background Noise is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 13:50
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 78
Posts: 7,542
Received 40 Likes on 20 Posts
News or not, the challenge will be providing (pre-positioned!) all those techy bits and pieces that make the whole thing work. Do we have enough Typhoon cockpit ladders to distribute around UK, for example?

I would hope the trials/exercises will focus on such little essentials, otherwise “for want of a nail etc etc”.
MPN11 is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 13:58
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst
Quite a lot of small countries have military and civilian airports mixed. The UK ceased to be a major player decades ago. Just waking up to reality.
How about RAF Gibralter?

Aeronavale
Brest or Britanny //GA airfield with pair of AS565F Panther

Bundesheer
Linz-Horsching (C-130K and AB-212)


RNEthAF
Eindhoven A330 MRTT/ C-130H / Gulfstream IV

RNoAF /USAFE

Stavanger ...AW101 SArQueen NAWSARH and 426th ABS, 423rd ABG, 501sr Combat Support Wing USAFE.

USN
NAples/Capodicinio : C-26D and detachment MH-60S

and theres many more

also states wise with Air Force Reserve, Air National Guard, Army National Guard/Reserve, Navy and marine corps reserves

cheers




chopper2004 is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 14:24
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Boulevard of Broken Dreams
Age: 51
Posts: 194
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not quite the same, but a few years ago, RNAS Culdrose was looked at as a base in the SW for deploying Typhoons to in times of need.
However nothing ever happened - I heard rumours as to why, but never heard a definitive reason as to why it didn't happen.

St Mawgan (Newquay to kids), has a fantastic HAS site that is now only separated from the active airfield by a fence - surely this could be dusted off and made operational again?
NickB is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 15:57
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 74
Posts: 17,989
Received 264 Likes on 104 Posts
MPN,

Improvisation is a concept known to the Infantry....and helicopter units.

No Typhoon Ladders....get some old fashioned Irish Scaffolding, a fork lift, a portalift from you local builders....this ain't rocket science.




SASless is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 17:03
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 309
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
'Proone' - 'downsizer;' has it right.

12 Sqn is not frontline4, it is involved in training the Qatari crews Bit of a comedown for Shiny Twelve, but maybe later it will return.
9 Sqn acts as an aggressor unit - yes it could return to an operational role fairly quickly if required, but that is not where it concentrates its work.

I do recall there being pictures of the Arrows with Sidewinders and gun pods on their machines long ago, but let's not push the boundaries of absurd. Again, things COULD be done if necessary, but that would take time, money and equipment pre- prepared.

biscuit74 is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 19:18
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Feet grounded, head in the clouds
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mopardave
whilst I was taking my obligatory old man's visit to the toilet........closely followed by an Atlas and two Chinooks!
You were followed to the loo by an Atlas and two Chinooks? Must have left the landing light on ...

I'll get my coat.
Addlepate is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2022, 22:37
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,815
Received 76 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by downsizer
Hmmmm...

I'm not sure we can class 12 Sqn as front line - are we really going to deploy what is basically a Qatari training Sqn anywhere other than Qatar for this world cup?

And 9 Sqn are "red air" and slated to disband aren't they - they don't fit in the Ops plot so arguably aren't first line either!
Well, 12 Squadron's Qatari commitment is described as 'temporary,' and 9 squadron have recently deployed 4 Typhoons to Romania on operational NATO air defence tasking, so I don't think that you can get any more front line than that!
pr00ne is online now  
Old 1st Sep 2022, 02:32
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 997
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst
Quite a lot of small countries have military and civilian airports mixed. The UK ceased to be a major player decades ago. Just waking up to reality.
Doesn't even have to be small RAAF has full time military airbases, civilian airbases with dispersal and hangers for visiting military aircraft and bare bone bases that have a very small terminal for civilian use and civilian part keeps the airbase maintained for military use
rattman is online now  
Old 1st Sep 2022, 06:58
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 1,061
Received 38 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by pr00ne
Well, 12 Squadron's Qatari commitment is described as 'temporary,' and 9 squadron have recently deployed 4 Typhoons to Romania on operational NATO air defence tasking, so I don't think that you can get any more front line than that!
They were plundered as a source of manpower and airframes - exactly the same as when they sent people to Shader earlier this year. They don't sit in the Ops plot.

Hey ho, I'm not going to die in a ditch over this but you are swallowing the propaganda if you think 12 and 9 are true front line Sqns.
downsizer is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2022, 17:03
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Great yarmouth, Norfolk UK
Age: 71
Posts: 589
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
MPN,
The Typhoon does have a built-in ladder, similar to the one the F4 had, or at least the 29Sqn T1 that was on static display at a RIAT years ago did!

I'm sure there must be an airframe professional on the system that can confirm or refute this.
bobward is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2022, 17:21
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 78
Posts: 7,542
Received 40 Likes on 20 Posts
Originally Posted by bobward
MPN,
The Typhoon does have a built-in ladder, similar to the one the F4 had, or at least the 29Sqn T1 that was on static display at a RIAT years ago did!

I'm sure there must be an airframe professional on the system that can confirm or refute this.
Oh, it was just a generalised GSE availability observation, rather than type-specific.

It's the little bits that can screw the plot, including suitable accommodation!
MPN11 is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2022, 17:46
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,101
Received 11 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
Great news for the profits of all the junk food brands at the chosen airports then !
You're joking right? Some jobsworth would no doubt say military personnel aren't adaquately security cleared to go near a civil apron or terminal.

The best the RAF will likely see is a couple of hastily dragged in Portacabins at the far end of the airport, a flaky piece of concrete to park the a/c on and horror bags driven in from the closest MOB by a contracted in taxi driver.
The Helpful Stacker is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.