Not-so-woke Reds

[KrisKringle]

Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09

New OC RAFAT Wing Commander Adam Collins | Royal Air Force (mod.uk)

New Officer Commanding for Red Arrows | Royal Air Force (mod.uk)

Cos will be a great boss. He hasn't been in the display team itself, he fulfilled the role of RAFAT manager/commentator, but has zero naughty habits or skeletons. He's also a good leader, has lots of broad experience and is a really top chap. Just the person to head the team at this challenging time. Good luck!

[unmanned_droid]

Originally Posted by KrisKringle

Cos will be a great boss. He hasn't been in the display team itself, he fulfilled the role of RAFAT manager/commentator, but has zero naughty habits or skeletons. He's also a good leader, has lots of broad experience and is a really top chap. Just the person to head the team at this challenging time. Good luck!

I don't really know what to think of the RAF anymore so we'll see I guess.

[Parson]

So an 8 ship this year......?!

[MG]

Originally Posted by Parson

So an 8 ship this year......?!

care to elaborate?
I have these discussions at home, when my other half up starts up a conversation where the first half of it has been part of her inner-monologue and has clearly been going on for quite a while without me.

[Parson]

Originally Posted by MG

care to elaborate?
I have these discussions at home, when my other half up starts up a conversation where the first half of it has been part of her inner-monologue and has clearly been going on for quite a while without me.

Can't seem to paste link but is on Red Arrows website

[airsound]

OC RAFAT, Wg Cdr Adam Collins, explains it all
https://twitter.com/rafredarrows

8-ship - same as La Patrouille de France...

airsound

[Parson]

Originally Posted by airsound

OC RAFAT, Wg Cdr Adam Collins, explains it all
https://twitter.com/rafredarrows

8-ship - same as La Patrouille de France...

airsound

Ta, sounds plausible I guess. Where's Mike Ling when you need him......

[Finningley Boy]

I wouldn't want to argue with the experts, but thinking back 60 years or so, the big Hunter and Lightning teams would, in the case of the former, operate up to 18 aircraft. This with a heavier, bigger and more robust performing machine. They would also split the full formation into smaller set teams with varying numbers, mostly to spread as far as possible on the annual "At Home" day when stations in double figures would be open. The Firebirds (Lightnings) flew a 10-ship display over Biggin Hill then split into 5-ship teams to cover two other events. This would surely increase the workload, different sequences with varying numbers requiring additional practice. Not to mention at least one pilot, in addition to the overall team leader, would also need to be team leader for a smaller formation. All aerobatic as well.

FB

[dctyke]

Originally Posted by Finningley Boy

I wouldn't want to argue with the experts, but thinking back 60 years or so, the big Hunter and Lightning teams would, in the case of the former, operate up to 18 aircraft. This with a heavier, bigger and more robust performing machine. They would also split the full formation into smaller set teams with varying numbers, mostly to spread as far as possible on the annual "At Home" day when stations in double figures would be open. The Firebirds (Lightnings) flew a 10-ship display over Biggin Hill then split into 5-ship teams to cover two other events. This would surely increase the workload, different sequences with varying numbers requiring additional practice. Not to mention at least one pilot, in addition to the overall team leader, would also need to be team leader for a smaller formation. All aerobatic as well.

FB

and 60 years ago the RAF were losing an average of 3 / 4 aircraft per week! (Up till 20 March it was 23)

[Finningley Boy]

Originally Posted by dctyke

and 60 years ago the RAF were losing an average of 3 / 4 aircraft per week! (Up till 20 March it was 23)

What... 23 a week!? No, surly not.

FB

[Diff Tail Shim]

Originally Posted by Finningley Boy

I wouldn't want to argue with the experts, but thinking back 60 years or so, the big Hunter and Lightning teams would, in the case of the former, operate up to 18 aircraft. This with a heavier, bigger and more robust performing machine. They would also split the full formation into smaller set teams with varying numbers, mostly to spread as far as possible on the annual "At Home" day when stations in double figures would be open. The Firebirds (Lightnings) flew a 10-ship display over Biggin Hill then split into 5-ship teams to cover two other events. This would surely increase the workload, different sequences with varying numbers requiring additional practice. Not to mention at least one pilot, in addition to the overall team leader, would also need to be team leader for a smaller formation. All aerobatic as well.

FB

Air Force was way bigger and life was cheap. Airframes were cheap. And the Country wasn't so skint. Some on here work in the 21st Century. I am mates with the guy whom is Red 4 now. He ain't woke. But he is as he is one of the most human beings on the job one could meet. He is not an I in the word Team.

[Finningley Boy]

Originally Posted by Diff Tail Shim

Air Force was way bigger and life was cheap. Airframes were cheap. And the Country wasn't so skint. Some on here work in the 21st Century. I am mates with the guy whom is Red 4 now. He ain't woke. But he is as he is one of the most human beings on the job one could meet. He is not an I in the word Team.

I merely make an observation sir, you say life was cheap, I don't think so. We are talking about the 1960s not the 1560s.

FB

[Diff Tail Shim]

Originally Posted by Finningley Boy

I merely make an observation sir, you say life was cheap, I don't think so. We are talking about the 1960s not the 1560s.

FB

But it was Sir. Accident investigations were basic and subjective then. It took the late 20th century and major accidents to change the approach. Enough technical experts to wade in more. I know the odd Red actually. As mentioned. Red 4 is a mate. I was with another Red last weekend whom did 3 year. I am so glad no juke boxes about now to play a certain Queen track. Fortunately in 27 years we haven't had the run of an accident a day.

[Gne]

By coincidence a mate (ex RN) sent me this this morning - not a bad summary and some great footage. Check of a 22 ship barrel roll.

You Tube

You might need to copy the URL and paste to your browser to view.

Gne

[Yellowjack99]

Good to see an older pilot joining the team, it says Red 2 joined the RAF in 1991. Would he be Spec Aircrew?

[dctyke]

Originally Posted by Finningley Boy

What... 23 a week!? No, surly not.

FB

No, from 1st January to 20th March 1963. (We lost a total of 120 that year)

[Finningley Boy]

Originally Posted by dctyke

No, from 1st January to 20th March 1963. (We lost a total of 120 that year)

But how did it all break down, what were the circumstances at the time given less reliable navigation aids etc. Was servicing involved. The attitude certainly wasn't dismissive, there has been a constant learning curve shall we say, I know that with regards to display flying, there was an accident during training for the Firebirds aerobatics team that year which resulted in an ejection, one write off and the pilot being wheel chair bound as a result. However, this wasn't a result of cutting corners or recklessness from what I can understand, it was as they say, shear bad luck. Later that year 15 RAF stations were open to the public with the RAF providing the bulk of fare at each. As far as I'm aware, despite some aerobatics teams/solos appearing at three or more each, the day passed off without incident. It's not a disregard for life that was the problem so much as the greater risk involved at the time, and yes, many more aircraft scattered across the world flying in different conditions with a comparative limited reliability on known procedures etc. Again, more a learning curve.

FB

FB

[EGDLaddict]

Aircraft of that era were monstrously difficult to handle compared even to those brought into service just a handful of years later.

[Jackonicko]

Originally Posted by 8674planes

I was a little shocked to see Montenegro is still flying and in the job. I thought he was suspended...

Who says he's still flying and in the job?

Poor chap seems to be suffering plenty of slings and arrows - latest edition of his book seems to no longer have his name on the cover, even.

[Just This Once...]

Originally Posted by Jackonicko

Who says he's still flying and in the job?

Jacko, check the date and context of your quote. It isn't relevant today.