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Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

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Can Wigston survive the onslaught?

Old 16th Sep 2022, 23:13
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" Excellent operational officer, but needs to develop finer tuned political antennae to progress" Ended career at Sqn Ldr. That, and possibly better people coming up behind me that had more potential and who managed to combine both!
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Old 16th Sep 2022, 23:31
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and this little Met Man: " firm, fair but evidently missed the lessons on tact and diplomacy".

Career saved by a good man who refused to forward an incendiary missive, keeping it in his In Tray until Monday, by which time I had cooled down.
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Old 16th Sep 2022, 23:36
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Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
The group captain who resigned over wokeness led by example.
I hope that she resigned in protest at being given an illegal order. In which case she was right to refuse to obey it. That shouldn't mean that she should resign though. Rather those who originated and conveyed the illegal order should be investigated and if necessary prosecuted. They won't be of course; in which case she had no alternative but to resign. Another indication of the rottenness that is at the heart of the RAF High Command.
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 11:16
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Angry

Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
I hope that she resigned in protest at being given an illegal order. In which case she was right to refuse to obey it. That shouldn't mean that she should resign though. Rather those who originated and conveyed the illegal order should be investigated and if necessary prosecuted. They won't be of course; in which case she had no alternative but to resign. Another indication of the rottenness that is at the heart of the RAF High Command.
What is it with these people?

Boris…..”I didn’t go to a party, I didn’t lie…… etc”
Andrew Windsor…..”I didn’t have sex with that woman….”
Bill Clinton …as above
Nixon…”there is no whitewash in the white house”
Wratten..”Pilot error, pure and simple - no evidence to the contrary”
Reagan …”To my knowledge we are not supplying the contras with weapons in return for cocaine”


All of the above LEADERS (leaders, with one exception, perhaps) were finally caught out and perhaps should have owned up straight away. people would have moved on.

However perhaps it explains the current (haven’t checked the news today) CAS’s approach to incisive Meejah questioning.


Wiggy…”Thank you, Kay. Erm…. I have been very clear, erm…that I am very clear…Kay…”
etc etc

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Old 17th Sep 2022, 12:52
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In an ideal world, politicians should be leaders, but they just aren't. The majority haven't got the aptitude, experience or training.

Military officers however...whats their excuse?

Ben Wallace has a good military background, I wonder what was going through his mind when he watched that interview? (if he could bring himself to do it!)


Last edited by Low average; 17th Sep 2022 at 13:04.
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 18:08
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Originally Posted by Low average View Post
Ben Wallace has a good military background, I wonder what was going through his mind when he watched that interview? (if he could bring himself to do it!)
That politicians are foolish?

Wiggy may have wanted to be a CO but the RAF decided otherwise. He may have wanted to be an AOC but the RAF made the decision to appoint others instead. Wiggy's sponsors may have got him to 2-star but he only got the conciliation prize of a mediocre joint appointment before he limped to 3-star. Neither the RAF or MOD pushed him further but the then Secretary of Defence (the one that told Russia to 'go away') ignored the candidate list for CAS and pushed Wiggy into the job instead.

Outside of being a squadron boss (technically an OC post only), Wiggy's stint as CAS is his first proper command tour. That choice has aged like fine milk.
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 18:12
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He came across as inept and that was putting it mildly..
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 19:02
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Originally Posted by Just This Once... View Post
That politicians are foolish?

Wiggy may have wanted to be a CO but the RAF decided otherwise. He may have wanted to be an AOC but the RAF made the decision to appoint others instead. Wiggy's sponsors may have got him to 2-star but he only got the conciliation prize of a mediocre joint appointment before he limped to 3-star. Neither the RAF or MOD pushed him further but the then Secretary of Defence (the one that told Russia to 'go away') ignored the candidate list for CAS and pushed Wiggy into the job instead.

Outside of being a squadron boss (technically an OC post only), Wiggy's stint as CAS is his first proper command tour. That choice has aged like fine milk.
Is this your way of saying that this choice has turned into some variety of Swiss cheese?

Jack
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 19:07
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Started with the Police and spread to the armed forces. Pretty sure my bro only got into the BTP because they had a ginger quota (and it was the Olympics...so they needed bodies regardless of targets) - every other force were not recruiting white males.

This is what happens when average people think they can run a public service or organisation like a corporation, when they clearly don't understand what makes either of those entities function.

Weak doesn't even begin to cover it.
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Old 17th Sep 2022, 19:49
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Originally Posted by pulse1 View Post
Notwithstanding his role in the whole Mull of Kyintire disaster, it might be worth comparing ACM Bill Wratten's interview technique : BBC News | NEWSNIGHT | Chinook transcript
(Sorry, I could only find a transcript)
WOW!!!
I stopped my ATC Cadet son flying in Chinooks because of this. I never ever believed the crew were responsible, neither did my Dad an ex QFI.

One of the things he said to me, is that you cannot blame a dead crew for an accident, as they are unable to defend themselves. Is or was that once true?

RIP all who were killed.



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Old 17th Sep 2022, 20:16
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
WOW!!!
I stopped my ATC Cadet son flying in Chinooks because of this. I never ever believed the crew were responsible, neither did my Dad an ex QFI.

One of the things he said to me, is that you cannot blame a dead crew for an accident, as they are unable to defend themselves. Is or was that once true?

RIP all who were killed.
I can’t speak to the rules now but at the time they stated that; “Only when there is no doubt whatsoever” can a deceased crew be found negligent. Whatever happened at the Mull there was certainly doubt in everyone’s mind except Wratten’s


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Old 17th Sep 2022, 20:58
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Originally Posted by Just This Once... View Post
Outside of being a squadron boss (technically an OC post only), Wiggy's stint as CAS is his first proper command tour. That choice has aged like fine milk.
An interesting take, JTO. Your mention of OC, as against CO, says it all. To my mind, the only real commanders in the RAF command people in Squadrons, Wings, and Stations. Those outside the Station Gates generally command bureaucratic formations, ie Groups and Commands. So the RAF's commanders start as OC's and peter out as CO's. All this despite the glittering descriptions afforded to Air Officers Commanding, and ditto-In-Chief. Almost suggests a deliberate ploy to play down the bureaucratic arrangements to the contrary. Funny that.
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 19:18
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Now he may not be perfect, and he may have made mistakes, but Mike Wigston is a bloody good officer, IMHO, and I've met and chatted with every CAS since Pete Squire, and even a few before that (Spotswood, Cameron, Beetham, Harding and Graydon). He's absolutely in command of his brief in a way that few other CASs have been, and he's relaxed, confident, engaging and charismatic, personable and likeable. I have no doubt at all that he works hard to do his best for the service, but he also works hard to fulfil the directives that he's given by his political masters, and I suspect that is why so much effort has gone into the D&I stuff.

Seeing him sneered at by lesser men, from behind the anonymity of PPRuNe user names just feels a bit off, frankly.
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 19:28
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
Now he may not be perfect, and he may have made mistakes, but Mike Wigston is a bloody good officer, IMHO, and I've met and chatted with every CAS since Pete Squire, and even a few before that (Spotswood, Cameron, Beetham, Harding and Graydon). He's absolutely in command of his brief in a way that few other CASs have been, and he's relaxed, confident, engaging and charismatic, personable and likeable. I have no doubt at all that he works hard to do his best for the service, but he also works hard to fulfil the directives that he's given by his political masters, and I suspect that is why so much effort has gone into the D&I stuff.

Seeing him sneered at by lesser men, from behind the anonymity of PPRuNe user names just feels a bit off, frankly.
Top tip for NAME DROP OF THE YEAR.

Lloyd George knew my father.
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 19:33
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Spotswood presented me with a form prize at my school, Cameron and Beetham were long retired when I met them.
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 20:11
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Jackoniko :-
Now he may not be perfect, and he may have made mistakes, but Mike Wigston is a bloody good officer, IMHO, and I've met and chatted with every CAS since Pete Squire, and even a few before that (Spotswood, Cameron, Beetham, Harding and Graydon). He's absolutely in command of his brief in a way that few other CASs have been, and he's relaxed, confident, engaging and charismatic, personable and likeable. I have no doubt at all that he works hard to do his best for the service, but he also works hard to fulfil the directives that he's given by his political masters, and I suspect that is why so much effort has gone into the D&I stuff.

Seeing him sneered at by lesser men, from behind the anonymity of PPRuNe user names just feels a bit off, frankly.

So did the 'D&I stuff' you mention start out as a directive from his political masters? Did it specifically require him to stop all white male recruiting in favour of that for BAME and female applicants? If so, it was illegal and should have been stopped then and there! If not, was it he who issued that illegal order? I only ask because rather than denouncing it, he merely said that it had not been implemented having been challenged. Well, we know who challenged it, an RAF Gp Capt, but who issued it? Was it the CAS? Being on such intimate terms with him perhaps you know?

To my knowledge, I have never spoken with any CAS, with the exception of MRAF Sir Dennis Spotswood who was Commandant of the RAFC then. So, you clearly have the advantage on me, and I suspect most of the other 'lesser men' you castigate, given the many others you have conversed with over the years. One might ask, "So what?". Being CAS doesn't call for impressing those one is glad handing; it calls for maintaining the fighting efficiency of the Royal Air Force. How many marks out of ten would he rate for that I wonder, while he pondered on his 'courageous' recruiting initiatives?

As to PPRuNe anonymity, it was always the last straw to be grasped by apologists in the many airworthiness related fatal accident threads. I hadn't realised that you don't post anonymously, Mr Jackonico.

Finally, other CAS's have presided over far more devastating harm to the Service than this one has, though all since then share the blame for ensuring that harm be covered up. None of them though got caught out quite so blatantly as this relaxed, confident, engaging and charismatic, personable and likeable man. In that he is quite unique.
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 20:40
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
Now he may not be perfect, and he may have made mistakes, but Mike Wigston is a bloody good officer, IMHO, and I've met and chatted with every CAS since Pete Squire, and even a few before that (Spotswood, Cameron, Beetham, Harding and Graydon). He's absolutely in command of his brief in a way that few other CASs have been, and he's relaxed, confident, engaging and charismatic, personable and likeable. I have no doubt at all that he works hard to do his best for the service, but he also works hard to fulfil the directives that he's given by his political masters, and I suspect that is why so much effort has gone into the D&I stuff.

Seeing him sneered at by lesser men, from behind the anonymity of PPRuNe user names just feels a bit off, frankly.
Cheers Mike.
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 21:37
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Originally Posted by cheekychimp View Post
Cheers Mike.
Where's the "like" button?!
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Old 18th Sep 2022, 22:23
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Originally Posted by ExAdvert View Post
Where's the "like" button?!
That button is unlikely to be worn out on this thread.

I do hope CAS can keep in step and stand with neck in back of collar, shoulders braced, tomorrow.
The King's boys and girls certainly will.

Last edited by langleybaston; 18th Sep 2022 at 23:17. Reason: clarity
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Old 19th Sep 2022, 06:03
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Originally Posted by langleybaston View Post
That button is unlikely to be worn out on this thread.

I do hope CAS can keep in step and stand with neck in back of collar, shoulders braced, tomorrow.
The King's boys and girls certainly will.

LB. Like this?
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