Reported Pause in RAF White Recruiting To Meet Diversity Targets
Where did it go wrong? 
Now I’m well past a quarter-century in the Services so I can honestly say I have seen discrimination during all of my time. Back in flying training I can remember seeing females getting literally 10, 20 and nearly 100 more hours ‘flex’ training sorties compared to their male peers to get them graduated (the males were simply chopped, like a male calf in a dairy herd). I can remember a female aircrew mate explaining that she was afraid of the dark and the instructors going into a huddle to try and work out how she could get a front line job that she could do that didn’t involve night flying (I jest, not!). Seeing many female aircrew pushed forward for ‘good deals’, or over-promoted because of their appearance, whilst their male peers were overlooked. However, that was set against a disgraceful environment where women had only just been paid the same as the men (only a couple of years earlier), that the women were instantly dismissed if they fell pregnant and that they were still expected to behave differently to their male counterparts. For the LGBTQ+ community, they had to live a secret life or face instant dismissal or even prosecution. The ethnic minorities suffered from the institutional racism of programmes like Alf Garnett and Rising Damp still resonating in the ‘80s and ‘90s. So all in all, everyone suffered a bit of discomfort and discrimination - so there was some equality!
By the turn of the Millenium, all those except white males (and sometimes especially those of an older persuasion) were subject to, quite rightly, a clamp down on the discrimination shown against them - but we forgot to ensure that the white male was also in a good place (we assumed, but never checked). So the females started to shed the last of the very poor treatment, like gaining maternity leave, and we saw the final injustice levelled when they were allowed to join the RAF Regt. For the LGTBTQ+ they were now protected by law and their chosen private lives were rightly becoming normalised and accepted, even though quite a small community in the main. Finally, the ethnic minorities were similarly normalised, racial prejudices were rightly called out and they were accepted for who they are rather than a facsimile of what their white European counterparts thought they should be. But the white, possibly middle-aged, man got no quarter and even went on to be further pilloried for being so-called “privileged” by social justice warriors (and those that backed up their chosen leaders stating such stuff) and it was almost as if they were made to suffer for the behaviours of their predecessors even if their opinions and prejudices bore little resemblance to those that went before them. In today’s language we failed to ‘create a safe space’ for the white male, making them feel less worthy than their peers with different appearances and sexual preferences.
The situation for the white, and sometimes middle-aged, man continued to worsen and we saw the final recent perversion and heinous discrimination that we appear to be witnessing right now. Where some folks in very senior positions in leadership think it’s OK to cease all applications for aptitude based roles by white males but continue to allow female and ethnic minority applications to continue (as shown in the video clip above - there is no denying that this illegal activity was enacted). That is discrimination, I’m afraid, plain and simple.
What to do, to put it right? Stop trying to compartmentalise people into groups. Treat everyone as a person and individual, without significant favour. Ensure that we are the meritocracy, regardless of appearance, that we have prided ourselves previously in being. Be sympathetic to their protected characteristics, and most of all outlaw in all working practices any notion of quotas, or ‘discrimination to try and stop discrimination’ - meritocracy matters, and with that you will naturally get the diversity that you seek (the most valuable being diversity of thought). It really is that simple. But the really hard bit now is to restore the trust that the current very senior leaders have lost with the past, current and future generation of the Service over the past few years - that will probably require those recent culprits, who embraced and directed such heinous activities as seen recently in the various videos and leaks, to fall on their swords and leave without a fuss. Like the final scene in Where Eagles Dare
. That might give everyone left a common purpose to pull together and reconstruct the culture that appears to have been so badly damaged in the past 2-3 years.
Now I’m well past a quarter-century in the Services so I can honestly say I have seen discrimination during all of my time. Back in flying training I can remember seeing females getting literally 10, 20 and nearly 100 more hours ‘flex’ training sorties compared to their male peers to get them graduated (the males were simply chopped, like a male calf in a dairy herd). I can remember a female aircrew mate explaining that she was afraid of the dark and the instructors going into a huddle to try and work out how she could get a front line job that she could do that didn’t involve night flying (I jest, not!). Seeing many female aircrew pushed forward for ‘good deals’, or over-promoted because of their appearance, whilst their male peers were overlooked. However, that was set against a disgraceful environment where women had only just been paid the same as the men (only a couple of years earlier), that the women were instantly dismissed if they fell pregnant and that they were still expected to behave differently to their male counterparts. For the LGBTQ+ community, they had to live a secret life or face instant dismissal or even prosecution. The ethnic minorities suffered from the institutional racism of programmes like Alf Garnett and Rising Damp still resonating in the ‘80s and ‘90s. So all in all, everyone suffered a bit of discomfort and discrimination - so there was some equality!
By the turn of the Millenium, all those except white males (and sometimes especially those of an older persuasion) were subject to, quite rightly, a clamp down on the discrimination shown against them - but we forgot to ensure that the white male was also in a good place (we assumed, but never checked). So the females started to shed the last of the very poor treatment, like gaining maternity leave, and we saw the final injustice levelled when they were allowed to join the RAF Regt. For the LGTBTQ+ they were now protected by law and their chosen private lives were rightly becoming normalised and accepted, even though quite a small community in the main. Finally, the ethnic minorities were similarly normalised, racial prejudices were rightly called out and they were accepted for who they are rather than a facsimile of what their white European counterparts thought they should be. But the white, possibly middle-aged, man got no quarter and even went on to be further pilloried for being so-called “privileged” by social justice warriors (and those that backed up their chosen leaders stating such stuff) and it was almost as if they were made to suffer for the behaviours of their predecessors even if their opinions and prejudices bore little resemblance to those that went before them. In today’s language we failed to ‘create a safe space’ for the white male, making them feel less worthy than their peers with different appearances and sexual preferences.
The situation for the white, and sometimes middle-aged, man continued to worsen and we saw the final recent perversion and heinous discrimination that we appear to be witnessing right now. Where some folks in very senior positions in leadership think it’s OK to cease all applications for aptitude based roles by white males but continue to allow female and ethnic minority applications to continue (as shown in the video clip above - there is no denying that this illegal activity was enacted). That is discrimination, I’m afraid, plain and simple.
What to do, to put it right? Stop trying to compartmentalise people into groups. Treat everyone as a person and individual, without significant favour. Ensure that we are the meritocracy, regardless of appearance, that we have prided ourselves previously in being. Be sympathetic to their protected characteristics, and most of all outlaw in all working practices any notion of quotas, or ‘discrimination to try and stop discrimination’ - meritocracy matters, and with that you will naturally get the diversity that you seek (the most valuable being diversity of thought). It really is that simple. But the really hard bit now is to restore the trust that the current very senior leaders have lost with the past, current and future generation of the Service over the past few years - that will probably require those recent culprits, who embraced and directed such heinous activities as seen recently in the various videos and leaks, to fall on their swords and leave without a fuss. Like the final scene in Where Eagles Dare
. That might give everyone left a common purpose to pull together and reconstruct the culture that appears to have been so badly damaged in the past 2-3 years.
To sum up, then?
Old and/or Middle aged WASPS and their opinions don’t actually matter any more.
….but then we sort of knew that, anyway.
Last edited by oldmansquipper; 20th Aug 2022 at 08:09. Reason: ‘Middle aged’ added to be more ‘inclusive’ in my posts.
... and I stop reading when it becomes clear that known facts are being discounted and obfuscation is being used to dismiss legitimate concerns: "that they were admitted not because of their talent, but because they were female or from a minority. Such a view is nonsense – the recruitment process has not changed its standards or lowered the pass rate for people from some backgrounds – anyone applying to join will still need to meet the same absolute standard as before". Well, no one is talking about "the standards" you clot, and leaked emails show that selection based on biological sex and ethnicity is exactly what has happened. It is indubitably not "nonsense".
B word, some interesting observations and predominantly difficult to disagree in general as you say it from your perspective. The only
point that I would make and I believe that it is important that it is made is that Alf Garnett and Rising Damp were TV comedies that were essentially made as satires to highlight the utter stupidity of racism as prevalent in the 60/70:era. They were absolutely not written / performed in any other manner than to highlight the worse aspects of U.K. society in that time now obviously very different. Indeed Johnny Speight who wrote the Alf Garrett series was a writer very much of the Left as were the cast including Warren Mitchell as the infamous Alf and Tony Booth who played the son in law, himself the father in the real world of Cherie Booth, wife of the then future PM as Peter Hitchens would say, the Blair creature. I think it is important to make the point on this, Cheers.
point that I would make and I believe that it is important that it is made is that Alf Garnett and Rising Damp were TV comedies that were essentially made as satires to highlight the utter stupidity of racism as prevalent in the 60/70:era. They were absolutely not written / performed in any other manner than to highlight the worse aspects of U.K. society in that time now obviously very different. Indeed Johnny Speight who wrote the Alf Garrett series was a writer very much of the Left as were the cast including Warren Mitchell as the infamous Alf and Tony Booth who played the son in law, himself the father in the real world of Cherie Booth, wife of the then future PM as Peter Hitchens would say, the Blair creature. I think it is important to make the point on this, Cheers.
https://news.sky.com/story/raf-took-...ggest-12676867RAF took steps to 'artificially inflate' diversity numbers to hit target, defence sources suggest[img]blob:https://www.pprune.org/8e885f0b-6c50-497a-8e4b-8fb032feed2e[/img]
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,880
Received 2,823 Likes
on
1,203 Posts
https://news.sky.com/story/raf-took-...ggest-12676867RAF took steps to 'artificially inflate' diversity numbers to hit target, defence sources suggest[img]blob:https://www.pprune.org/8e885f0b-6c50-497a-8e4b-8fb032feed2e[/img]
This might sound stupid, but is the infrastructure in place to absorb the increase of females into the Airforce? Most stations used to have a couple of female accommodation blocks, or has that been ramped up significantly to compensate for the growing percentage of women?
The language used by various RAF spokespersons to explain what has been going on seems, to me at least, to be tortured in the extreme - usually a sign that the thought processes involved are also tortured. There used to be a feature in a service publication entitled "Cratese of the week/month". The pieces to which I refer would win every time.
In addition, the Union Jack on the aircraft that appears in the clip used by SkyNews in recent days to introduce the topic is upside down.
In addition, the Union Jack on the aircraft that appears in the clip used by SkyNews in recent days to introduce the topic is upside down.
NL-I am pretty sure the modern accommodation is unisex, happy to be corrected.
B word-some interesting points made, I certainly heard of a male pilot being reinstated when he pointed out that a female at the same base had had many more hours and still handed passed the check he had just failed.
Also don't forget women had a right to leave on marriage- another discrimination against men which was stopped when a male officer asked to do the same!
B word-some interesting points made, I certainly heard of a male pilot being reinstated when he pointed out that a female at the same base had had many more hours and still handed passed the check he had just failed.
Also don't forget women had a right to leave on marriage- another discrimination against men which was stopped when a male officer asked to do the same!
olster A very fair point. I suppose the issue with comedies about racist behaviours can also encourage it as people think it’s funny but they really mean it! By the way, I’m also not advocating today’s comedy position either - one where it appears you can’t say anything as it may offend someone! I’m amazed that Dad’s Army is still on telly as it could be seen to ridicule the old!!!
vascodegama Yes, I recall similar. Also, agreed some accommodation is unisex but some is still segregated as the ablutions are unfit as they were designed and built in the 1930s or so with all-male workforce in mind. Although, that said, some would prefer to have working showers full-stop rather than what they currently endure! Also, where female toilets have been introduced then often the singular disabled toilet is allocated to females too..So if you go to 40% female workforce there are going to be queues in some buildings (one of which I can think of was built about 15 years ago and has office accommodation for around 800 staff!).
vascodegama Yes, I recall similar. Also, agreed some accommodation is unisex but some is still segregated as the ablutions are unfit as they were designed and built in the 1930s or so with all-male workforce in mind. Although, that said, some would prefer to have working showers full-stop rather than what they currently endure! Also, where female toilets have been introduced then often the singular disabled toilet is allocated to females too..So if you go to 40% female workforce there are going to be queues in some buildings (one of which I can think of was built about 15 years ago and has office accommodation for around 800 staff!).
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,617
Received 293 Likes
on
161 Posts
Spokesbody?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,880
Received 2,823 Likes
on
1,203 Posts
Wokespoker?
I served for 39 years. I never saw any racial discrimination in all that time. It also appears that gay people kept their habits hidden, so I never saw any of discrimination on that subject; the fact that homosexuality was forbidden meant I never saw it. But I do agreed that the Service's attitude towards females was mixed; they were sometimes given preferential treatment and often used their sexuality to further their careers. Of course, that did not apply for all women. However, I never observed any significant discrimination of any kind and am positive that racial discrimination did not exist. Just my viewpoint of a period 1964 - 2003.
Just imagine, 10 years time (MFTS might have worked) and a large proportion of my squadron are either on maternity leave or observing Ramadan and are unfit to work, can we ask for a pause from any adversary or crisis event? Just asking for a friend
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,880
Received 2,823 Likes
on
1,203 Posts
You could always bring back the WRAF, that way you would have an “airforce” exclusive for women and one for men,(MRAF?) thus at a stroke you have got rid of the requirements to meet diversity quotas and “each” airforce would recruit individually through the same infrastructure meaning their numbers could vary individually dependent on their recruitment successes to find a balanced RAF force as a total..
job done
job done
You could always bring back the WRAF, that way you would have an “airforce” exclusive for women and one for men,(MRAF?) thus at a stroke you have got rid of the requirements to meet diversity quotas and “each” airforce would recruit individually through the same infrastructure meaning their numbers could vary individually dependent on their recruitment successes to find a balanced RAF force as a total..
job done
job done
How double-dare you!
SkyGod
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
1 Post
I remember reading, in the early 90's, about a teenager in the USA (where else[img]images/smilies2/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]) who was trying to sue her parents for having her. Her parents were less than aesthetically pleasing to behold and this young lady did unfortunately look like she had crawled out of the gene pool whilst the lifeguard wasn't looking -
Older entitled white female.
Does anyone else get the irony in the confusion coming out of airship towers around the current shambles
I have three sets of grandchildren growing up.
The eldest at university studying engineering was planning to apply to the RAF on graduating now instead he is going for an internship at one of those companies that are based around Silverstone so disgusted he is with the publicity surrounding this issue, shame really as he would have been the forth generation of the family to serve his country!
the next down is just about to take A* levels and has threatened to cut me off at the knees if I even act like an unreconstructed 78 year old, she has multiple bame friends and is committed to racial equality but even she considers A.V.M woke does not understand the thought processes the emerging generations have to racial equality.
The third set just entering their teens have lived all their life in the UAE,speak Arabic have friends all over the world, but when they came home recently I asked who they were they said British.
So in summary an older white female AVM is imposing her ideals on the generations that are coming through when and I say again the people they are targeting don't see diversity they just see human beings.
She should do the honourable thing and resign, but no just like instances as per David Hills books the airships will form a circle and protect her, where oh where is Ben Wallace when he is needed
I have three sets of grandchildren growing up.
The eldest at university studying engineering was planning to apply to the RAF on graduating now instead he is going for an internship at one of those companies that are based around Silverstone so disgusted he is with the publicity surrounding this issue, shame really as he would have been the forth generation of the family to serve his country!
the next down is just about to take A* levels and has threatened to cut me off at the knees if I even act like an unreconstructed 78 year old, she has multiple bame friends and is committed to racial equality but even she considers A.V.M woke does not understand the thought processes the emerging generations have to racial equality.
The third set just entering their teens have lived all their life in the UAE,speak Arabic have friends all over the world, but when they came home recently I asked who they were they said British.
So in summary an older white female AVM is imposing her ideals on the generations that are coming through when and I say again the people they are targeting don't see diversity they just see human beings.
She should do the honourable thing and resign, but no just like instances as per David Hills books the airships will form a circle and protect her, where oh where is Ben Wallace when he is needed
But it isn't just her though, is it? All of the top end must have discussed this and as there haven't been any sackings (I presume GM has moved on schedule or was it unexpected?) there must have been agreement. Ergo they're all culpable for this (and for all the other damage that's been done!), and very much appear to be just a series of "managers" with big and clever ideas while missing the basics of what it takes to be military. So even if people go, who the hell comes next?
As someone closer to the coal face rather than the ivory tower, I haven't seen such disconnect between top and bottom since the days of the Mull Chinook inquiry. Nor is it obvious who is going to turn it around. In football terms, we've gone all Manchester United.
Target the advertising by all means, but I want the best we can get working with and for me - not someone who is a bloody statistic first and foremost!! Let's face it; the next conflict for us is in clear sight so we need to get this right. As the whole of the public sector seems to have gone ED&I-mad, is this why everything seems to be a shambles?
B Word, another spot on post.
As someone closer to the coal face rather than the ivory tower, I haven't seen such disconnect between top and bottom since the days of the Mull Chinook inquiry. Nor is it obvious who is going to turn it around. In football terms, we've gone all Manchester United.
Target the advertising by all means, but I want the best we can get working with and for me - not someone who is a bloody statistic first and foremost!! Let's face it; the next conflict for us is in clear sight so we need to get this right. As the whole of the public sector seems to have gone ED&I-mad, is this why everything seems to be a shambles?
B Word, another spot on post.
Last edited by Jobza Guddun; 20th Aug 2022 at 13:46.