Reported Pause in RAF White Recruiting To Meet Diversity Targets
If there has been direction to stop selecting white males in order to reach diversity targets it is discriminatory (positive discrimination) and therefore illegal. You cannot lawfully order someone to break the law.
However, it is lawful to prefer one candidate over another on diversity grounds if they otherwise of equal merit. That is called positive action.
However, it is lawful to prefer one candidate over another on diversity grounds if they otherwise of equal merit. That is called positive action.
If there has been direction to stop selecting white males in order to reach diversity targets it is discriminatory (positive discrimination) and therefore illegal. You cannot lawfully order someone to break the law.
However, it is lawful to prefer one candidate over another on diversity grounds if they otherwise of equal merit. That is called positive action.
However, it is lawful to prefer one candidate over another on diversity grounds if they otherwise of equal merit. That is called positive action.
Thread Starter
Just did a bit of Googling and a previous incumbent of the Gp Capt Recruiting & Selection post who started presenting on all this BAME recruiting target stuff - with rainbow ensemble photos - went on promotion to be Head of DIO Accommodation (!) and is now MOD HQ Head of Strategic Communications with a staff having to come up with all the damage control lines on Twitter. How ironic.
Lots of responses to MOD in this thread::
Lots of responses to MOD in this thread::
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If you can at the same time achieve a force mix that reflects society, is that not a good thing? All the academic evidence indicates that diversity improves team performance, so the system should be aiming to attract and select the best individual talent to make up a diverse force.
The point is that you are being protected by the best society has to offer.
If you can at the same time achieve a force mix that reflects society, is that not a good thing? All the academic evidence indicates that diversity improves team performance, so the system should be aiming to attract and select the best individual talent to make up a diverse force.
If you can at the same time achieve a force mix that reflects society, is that not a good thing? All the academic evidence indicates that diversity improves team performance, so the system should be aiming to attract and select the best individual talent to make up a diverse force.
For all it matters. of the number you quote, most Indian troops died fighting to defend India from a Japanese invasion in the 14th Army in Burma, they served elsewhere as well especially in the British 8th Army in the Western Desert Campaign and Italy. The total British war dead are reckoned to be, military (records are variable) 384,000 and approximately 70,000 civilians. But what is so alarming about this carry on with RAF recruitment is that ordinarily the bulk of recruitment comes from young white men, that is because the indigenous, essentially white population, make up the bulk of recruitment largely because they represent about 87% of the population, also, women for all the efforts made to encourage them to join, are much less likely to want to join up. Those of a non-indigenous background make up about 13% of the population, not 20% which I understand is the recruitment target. But which ever way you slice this up it isn't about placing round pegs in round holes, its about hammering square pegs into round holes and vice-versa, It seems that the progressives are obsessed with destroying the image and culture of HM Forces rather than making opportunities available to all, that war has been won. But the culture and image is still not what they want, indeed crave it to be. This results not from selection and privilege, which seems to be the misguided thinking and logic behind all this, but the natural result of fair recruitment and training. If I may say so.
FB
FB
Media vs reality
With many of these stories that we see in the media I usually take them with a pinch of salt. I also usually give the VSOs the benefit of the doubt and accept that I do not necessarily understand the strategic levels of thinking behind such initiatives.
On this particular issue though I feel they have completely lost the plot. Just read some of the bio’s of the senior leadership team at the link above. Their D and I statements seem to be given far more thought than a grand military strategy for a major offensive. I bet the commander of British land forces for the Falklands invasion put less thought into his statement of intent than some of those VSOs have put into their statements about their views on D and I.
BV
On this particular issue though I feel they have completely lost the plot. Just read some of the bio’s of the senior leadership team at the link above. Their D and I statements seem to be given far more thought than a grand military strategy for a major offensive. I bet the commander of British land forces for the Falklands invasion put less thought into his statement of intent than some of those VSOs have put into their statements about their views on D and I.
BV
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Looking at the lineup of the RAF’s senior commanders I note that with the exception of the two female members they are all white males. Perhaps they might like to do the decent thing and resign forthwith to make way for a more inclusive team of female & BAME officers with maybe one token white male in order to provide ‘balance’? Then they might truly reflect the intent of one of their diversity statements:
Alongside diversity sits inclusion: to be diverse we must be inclusive. Inclusive of all the things that make us diverse, inclusive of our Whole Force and inclusive when we seek and find viewpoints or behaviours we ourselves find challenging…. Join me in turning these ideas into your own personal action: ask yourself, ‘what will I do’ and embody these words.
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I'm so glad this is happening. I remember my Father telling me when the Luftwaffe were being chased away from bombing Plymouth he and his mates used to talk about their serious concerns that the Spitfire Squadron at the time was not ethnically diverse enough and should have been grounded while an investigation was carried out.
I remember back in the 80's and 90's I had a few misogynistic and openly racist colleagues who's views and opinions strayed well beyond what would have been considered "normal" banter in that era. What worried me was that several of these people went on to become officers even though their report-writing leaders at the time would have been well aware of their attitudes. Clearly, the selection system didn't pick this up either and they would have gone on to have influence on the careers of others through the nineties and beyond. I have no idea whether the current situation is OTT but there was clearly a need for change back then.
Space shuttle commander Scott Kelly makes some interesting comments in this book about how as a former navy fighter form the all male, mainly white testosterone fuelled 80's he realised that NASA's efforts in D&I really paid off over time. You got a much better outcome in any project with a diverse team with lower testosterone levels. The "right stuff" might have worked in the early days but it would have held back progress over time.
Space shuttle commander Scott Kelly makes some interesting comments in this book about how as a former navy fighter form the all male, mainly white testosterone fuelled 80's he realised that NASA's efforts in D&I really paid off over time. You got a much better outcome in any project with a diverse team with lower testosterone levels. The "right stuff" might have worked in the early days but it would have held back progress over time.
I'm so glad this is happening. I remember my Father telling me when the Luftwaffe were being chased away from bombing Plymouth he and his mates used to talk about their serious concerns that the Spitfire Squadron at the time was not ethnically diverse enough and should have been grounded while an investigation was carried out.
Armstrong & Miller appear to have been slightly clairvoyant.
Never heard so much rubbish in all my life. How the hell are we expected to win a war, if the criteria is not picking the best person for the job?! Selecting the candidates, who have not been weeded out, before the board have had a chance to asess them.
Making up quoaters to appease the PC brigade is madness. The Russia military must be weeing in their pants with amusement on receiving news of this rank stupidity.
Making up quoaters to appease the PC brigade is madness. The Russia military must be weeing in their pants with amusement on receiving news of this rank stupidity.
Last edited by RichardJones; 17th Aug 2022 at 12:32.
So, it sounds like you believe that our warfighter's performance could be improved by them reflecting the societal mix? Sorry, I don't buy that! If it does work out that way, then great...but the objective should be to strive for the most capable forces, with diversity being an irrelevance.
It might be that the recruitment process favours white candidates, but hopefully that's no longer the case; however it's highly plausible that people from some backgrounds could be put off applying in the first place because they perceive that they'll be made less welcome than a white person. If you want to get the best people for the job, it's important that this doesn't happen. You mustn't bias the selection process, but I have no problem with targetted advertising and publicity, to encourage more of those 13% to apply. If cultural changes are needed to make those 13% feel as welcome as the other 87%, that should also be done; otherwise they'll leave, and you've lost some great people.
Same principle applies to LGBTQIA+ candidates, and so on. Diversity is in everyone's interest.
Pasta
You are absolutely correct. Targeted advertising and recruitment is not a bad thing. Every human from any socio-economic group of any gender/race/sexuality should understand that they are welcome to join the RAF and the wider armed forces. That is correct and fair.
Beyond that though the numbers should be irrelevant. You can’t make people join the RAF (I think the Navy used to do exactly this though as recently as 200 years ago) and you really shouldn’t turn anyone away based on any protected characteristic.
Fair treatment and equality of opportunity should be sacrosanct. For all humans who wish to join the RAF.
I’m afraid I can’t be convinced otherwise. Please notice how I have chosen my language before you try.
BV
Beyond that though the numbers should be irrelevant. You can’t make people join the RAF (I think the Navy used to do exactly this though as recently as 200 years ago) and you really shouldn’t turn anyone away based on any protected characteristic.
Fair treatment and equality of opportunity should be sacrosanct. For all humans who wish to join the RAF.
I’m afraid I can’t be convinced otherwise. Please notice how I have chosen my language before you try.
BV