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UKMFTS Failing to Deliver...again

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UKMFTS Failing to Deliver...again

Old 6th Aug 2022, 13:08
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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B Word, you have absolutely nailed it. I found myself continually nodding as I read your post.

I'm sad that our Air Force has been reduced to this, and even sadder that I don't have enough time left to take part in any recovery programme. Perhaps misplaced, but I have high hopes the next CAS can start reversing the failings, including a review of all training delivery, not just MFTS - Engineering is also heading down the toilet.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 13:21
  #22 (permalink)  
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B Word - Very accurate precis. As much as we like to blame companies like Babcock and Lockheed, they can't cause the damage that is occurring without the facilitation and access given to them by Senior Officers and incompetent procurement types. Contractors will always be in it for the money, but the contract terms and operating environment are set by the senior leadership. Awarding a 25 year training contract with zero consideration for any changes in the major equipments, strategic priorities and what actual customers of the system might need was always going to end in tears. And so it has.


/ "A selection process that is second only to astronaut selection"

/ Is that the going to moon astronauts, or the driving halfway across America wearing adult diapers to murder your love rival astronauts? Asking for a friend.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 13:57
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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To misquote Admiral Beatty at Jutland:

” There seems to be something wrong with our bloody Very Senior Officers today.”


No good blaming contractors who “just want to make money.” In the capitalist system that IS the point of contractors.

And these same contractors do the same in contracted and privatised military training systems for other countries across the globe from Australia to the USA without them being the crippling disaster that MFTS is.

The difference is the VSO’s…
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 18:58
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Response from the RAF's social media's

Our people are our greatest asset and we’re committed to ensuring we attract and retain the best and brightest talent to meet current and future threats. Whilst we acknowledge there are challenges with the training pipeline, we are working across defence, with industry and our international partners to improve the training experience and results for our personnel, including recruiting more instructors and actively managing timeframes for training. We continue to have sufficient aircrew to meet our operational commitments.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 19:58
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I hope CANADA is watching this - they are about to implement a similar system with their Future Aircrew Training (FAcT) Contract. The experience of the UK should show them what happens when you let Babcock (UKMFTS Provider Ascent is a 50/50 JV between babcock and LM) anywhere near your Training System. They will bid low, promise the world and then fail to deliver...but they don't care because they have the contract. This is how they operate - CANADA has been warned.
Babcock - the clue is in the name.
I am just surprised it has taken a relatively switched on Defence Correspondent such as Deborah H so long to latch onto this clusterf**k. Whilst the FJ programme puts the omni into omni shambles, I hope the current airing covers the gamut of MFTS.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 20:06
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B Word- Best summary that I have seen. Your penultimate paragraph needs sending to every MP and senior officer. BZ.
I sent a letter to my MP, known around our parts as Desperate Dan, 18 months ago, alerting him to this impending disaster. I got no reply.

A central part of our problems is that few MPs (with some very notable exceptions) care a jot about defence.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 20:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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B-word, summed up very succintly, I am afraid! How have we got to this state (answer not required!). I am well out of things but still have an interest! Progress is essential to any organisation, military or civilian, and I am more than willing to accept that I am way past any understanding of all the technical facets of a modern air force. However, I am still "with it" enough to query how the heirarchy of today's Royal Air Force are advised, make decisions, and are still able to screw it up!!

Bill
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 20:38
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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RNZAF has an operaional force of
5 C 130s
6 P 3s (retired two)
2 757s
8 NH90s

To train for this force it has a fleet of 11 T 6 Texans

Interesting to compare to RAF/Babcocks who fly 14 Texans.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 22:49
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Am no expert, and am sure there is a ‘master plan’ that worked it all out, but the numbers of training aircraft being purchased for MFTS always seemed a bit low to me.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 23:52
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Originally Posted by Parson
Am no expert, and am sure there is a ‘master plan’ that worked it all out, but the numbers of training aircraft being purchased for MFTS always seemed a bit low to me.
Perhaps the training budget was set before the force level adjustments were made public?
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 05:51
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fdr
The RAF could always incorporate an active reserve to put the needed crew in the right place. The guys that have left before the change of equipment and tactics can be effective in other areas of operations, guys less than about 10 years off the fleet would be able to brush up skills within a short period. Asking students on course to resign is asinine, the billy goats that engineered this shambles should be marched off the edge of the cliff instead. The students could however be relocated to other commonwealth forces that have short falls in crewing. Going back is not that hard, some of the words have changed, but the sky remains the same.
The guys and girls that left did so for a reason. Why would they come back to this shambles (with a paycut in all probability) again?
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 07:44
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For years the UK talks about Reserves etc etc but they are never funded properly and there is no constituency in the full-time services or the MoD that supports the ideas really. You need POLITICAL backing to force the issue - in the US this is what keeps the National Guard units trained and equipped to a serious level. The main US services would just love to get their hands on the money but they can't
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 10:05
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National Guards are funded by the individual states as well as the main federal funds too. Can you imagine North Kesteven Council funding a Reserve Typhoon Squadron?
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 11:02
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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A56

I don’t know if you’ve ever spent much time with Guard units but whilst I agree they are equipped to a serious level I would still take some convincing that they are trained to a serious level.

BV
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 13:35
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated
RNZAF has an operaional force of
5 C 130s
6 P 3s (retired two)
2 757s
8 NH90s

To train for this force it has a fleet of 11 T 6 Texans

Interesting to compare to RAF/Babcocks who fly 14 Texans.
Yeah, but those 11Texan’s ARE its “fast jet” fleet!
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 15:05
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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More from Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/fixing-ch...solve-12667608

How can such an omnishambles recruit ANY new pilots if they can't even train the ones they already have?
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 16:21
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But ACM Wigston has successfully allowed beards and got rid of LAC/SAC so will consider his tenure a success. Who needs pilots when you have an overstretched Woke air force
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 17:42
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
I don’t know if you’ve ever spent much time with Guard units but whilst I agree they are equipped to a serious level I would still take some convincing that they are trained to a serious level.

BV
I flew on the same roulement for OSW with the 188FW AANG F16CJ who were flying SEAD. I could not have hoped for a more professional or disciplined unit. They certainly kept the SAM sites tied down whilst we provided BARCAP near Baghdad. A few Magnum calls too during our VUL.

So, I disagree BV, with your comment on their training and proficiency level. But that is the thing here, if the RAF wanted a Reserve FJ capability they would need to generate aircraft over the weekend and evenings when Reserves might fly. Otherwise, they take the precious little flying that the Regulars get. So really, without the significant training budget that the ANG attract, then it really is a non-starter for the RAF. They would need more engineers, spares, air traffic, fighter controllers, training adversaries, firefighters, sim staff, mess staff, etc… the support tail is huge, all that normally stand down outside normal working hours.
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 18:02
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LJ

Fair enough. I’m happy to be proven wrong. But the unit I spent time with on exercise recently might be the yin to your yang.

BV
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Old 7th Aug 2022, 21:30
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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More from Deborah Haynes on Twitter:

NEW: Defence Secretary @BWallaceMP instructed the head of the @RoyalAirForce to fix chronic problems with flying training for new pilots as "his only priority", a defence source has said. That was more than 2.5yrs ago. The system is still in “crisis”.

[Anyone following him on Twitter knows how much time Wokeston wastes on complete nonsense / virtue signalling like attending obscure ethnic minority ceremonies, rank structure renamimg (when "airman" is perfectly acceptable in the USAF for males, females and others) and commenting endlessly on Diversity, Inclusion, Whole Force, Next Gen RAF etc]

"On Friday,
@SkyNews revealed an "emerging" issue with the Hawk aircraft used by fast jet trainees & concerns about a "damaging drain" of qualified pilots quitting the RAF for better-paid jobs in industry rather than staying on to fly on operations and instruct new recruits."

"The impact of the various challenges means dozens of recruits are stuck in limbo waiting for months - sometimes years - for training slots to open up on fast jet courses as well as those earmarked to fly military transport, spy planes and helicopters."

"The ongoing "shambles" raise difficult questions for
@ChiefofAirStaff Sir Mike Wigston and other senior RAF leaders as threats from Russia and China rise, according to defence sources. @RoyalNavy and @BritishArmy trainee aviators are also affected by the situation."

"Leaked documents show how a rise in operational demand hits RAF's ability to train fast jet recruits because of insufficient instructors. 1 file said there’d been a 65% drop in demand for trainees to learn how to fly Typhoon this year due "predominately to operational tempo"."


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