Paras to be grounded due to wrong chutes
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Lovely to learn something from all the "TacAT experts" who've suddenly decided their opinion on how C-130 flies and despatches para is valid. Insertions sausage-side below 500' in all* weather by day and night, optionally as part of a package containing some of the world's most advanced ISR, air-to-air, and air-to-ground assets, may or may not be what the C-130 force trains for every day.
That the majority of folk seem have only ever experienced it as a particularly uncomfortable airliner and don't think about what else it gets up to might be one reason why it's being dispensed-with. Using all the aforementioned complementary assets and using LLP to spearhead an assault force, then keeping it supplied from the air or using a captured airhead is exactly what this sort of capability is for. The Russians got the first bit right-ish, just didn't follow up.
That the majority of folk seem have only ever experienced it as a particularly uncomfortable airliner and don't think about what else it gets up to might be one reason why it's being dispensed-with. Using all the aforementioned complementary assets and using LLP to spearhead an assault force, then keeping it supplied from the air or using a captured airhead is exactly what this sort of capability is for. The Russians got the first bit right-ish, just didn't follow up.
Last edited by throwaway1; 26th Jul 2022 at 19:42. Reason: Paragraphs
Originally Posted by VX275
The Specification for the LLP originally required a minimum drop height of 250 ft AGL at max AUW.
Towards the end of its trials at Boscombe someone came up with the idea of conducting a live drop at that height. The problem was, that whilst the test team were confident that the parachute would be OK 250 ft AGL was way below the minimum drop height for the (then) current reserve parachute. To de-risk the drop it was decided to carry it out over a French lake with some of the team deciding not to bother with the useless reserve, making it the first (non emergency) British Military parachute descent without a reserve since 1956. Once the trial was all planned it was quite comical the number of phone calls the team received from senior officers trying to pull rank so that they could be on the drop, only to be told that "we have all the Sergeant PJI's we need thank you". In the end the drop was a touch higher than 250 ft as there was some concern that the Hercs rad alt was reading the bottom of the lake and not the water surface. However, the time in the air for the jumpers from leaving the step to landing in the water under a fully inflated LLP was around 9 seconds.
Towards the end of its trials at Boscombe someone came up with the idea of conducting a live drop at that height. The problem was, that whilst the test team were confident that the parachute would be OK 250 ft AGL was way below the minimum drop height for the (then) current reserve parachute. To de-risk the drop it was decided to carry it out over a French lake with some of the team deciding not to bother with the useless reserve, making it the first (non emergency) British Military parachute descent without a reserve since 1956. Once the trial was all planned it was quite comical the number of phone calls the team received from senior officers trying to pull rank so that they could be on the drop, only to be told that "we have all the Sergeant PJI's we need thank you". In the end the drop was a touch higher than 250 ft as there was some concern that the Hercs rad alt was reading the bottom of the lake and not the water surface. However, the time in the air for the jumpers from leaving the step to landing in the water under a fully inflated LLP was around 9 seconds.
Sadly that is not a great feat any more, low level air defenses are brutally good. So where does this combination apply?
"the Rhodesian Fire Force teams used to carry out in one day (I think at a push they could manage 3) - all dropped from low level in close co-ordination with heli-borne troops, armed helis and (if within range) arty and CAS. Year after year of tactically - and occasionally strategically - successful para ops."
but no anti-air or defending airpower to overcome. . Lets face it - in the modern world a para attack against even third rate armed forces would make Arnhem look like a tea party.
You stand a chance against terrorists or guerrillas but many of those have reasonable antiair capability these days
but no anti-air or defending airpower to overcome. . Lets face it - in the modern world a para attack against even third rate armed forces would make Arnhem look like a tea party.
You stand a chance against terrorists or guerrillas but many of those have reasonable antiair capability these days
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Originally Posted by uxb99
I thought Paras were so hard they didn't need chutes?
What about HALO?
btw has there ever been a parachute mission that was successful?
What about HALO?
btw has there ever been a parachute mission that was successful?
Many, Normandy, Sicily, Panama Kandahar and there was one in US drop in Vietnam
Originally Posted by Test Monkey
Many, Normandy, Sicily, Panama Kandahar and there was one in US drop in Vietnam
btw has there ever been a parachute mission that was successful?
Originally Posted by Test Monkey View Post
Many, Normandy, Sicily, Panama Kandahar and there was one in US drop in Vietnam
I think it could be argued that the Normandy drops were lucky rather than successful.
Many, Normandy, Sicily, Panama Kandahar and there was one in US drop in Vietnam
I think it could be argued that the Normandy drops were lucky rather than successful.
Not mentioned so far is the US Ranger Parachute Landing done during the Grenada Assault.
US Army Rangers jumped from 500 feet or below and were on the ground in about Ten Seconds.
https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/...point-salines/
US Army Rangers jumped from 500 feet or below and were on the ground in about Ten Seconds.
https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/...point-salines/
Thread Starter
The Irish use chutes that deploy at 10 foot, so if they have a failure, anyone can jump down from that height.
Was it in the italian campaign they dropped them in error over the sea?
Was it in the italian campaign they dropped them in error over the sea?
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Was it in the italian campaign they dropped them in error over the sea?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
To return to the main point, the MOD has now ordered the chutes, which are not a long lead item, so at best there will be a “capability holiday” for a few months - for a capability which hasn’t been used since 1956 and for which the MOD has no defined use - in Ukraine, Europe or elsewhere.
Not so much a storm in a teacup but under an electron microscope…
Seems more a case of paras throwing their toys out of the cot after realising where they currently stand in the pecking order..
Not so much a storm in a teacup but under an electron microscope…
Seems more a case of paras throwing their toys out of the cot after realising where they currently stand in the pecking order..
During Sicily friendly AAA fire from the assault fleet shot down quite a few C-47's....over the sea.
Several loads of Troopers were dropped into the Channel during the D-Day jumps.
Jumping is a pretty interesting way of commuting to work.
More detail of the losses among the airborne and glider forces engaged in the Sicily Invasion.....sad story.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wor....html?safari=1
Several loads of Troopers were dropped into the Channel during the D-Day jumps.
Jumping is a pretty interesting way of commuting to work.
More detail of the losses among the airborne and glider forces engaged in the Sicily Invasion.....sad story.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/wor....html?safari=1
Last edited by SASless; 28th Jul 2022 at 21:45.
Originally Posted by MightyGem
Don't know about the Paras, but many gliders were released too early during the Sicily invasion and landed in the sea.
The Horsas used to assault Pegasus Bridge were able to fly a considerable distance after release and as we all know, landed right next to the bridge.
Thread Starter
Here is about the Sicily landings and the loss of up to 70 gliders
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/ww...p-into-sicily/
https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/ww...p-into-sicily/
Complicating matters, high winds began to kick up as the aircraft reached cruising altitude. Some gusts were clocked at up to 35 miles per hour, and for the Americans of the 82nd Airborne Division any training jump was canceled if wind speed reached 15 miles per hour. However, this jump into hostile territory would go ahead as scheduled. As a result, the 144 British gliders were buffeted by the winds and became unstable.
Out of fear that the aircraft would be mistaken for Germans by the invasion fleet headed toward Sicily, the pilots were ordered to fly a circuitous route toward their drop zones. After visually sighting the island of Linosa in the Mediterranean Sea, the pilots were to fly on to Malta and dog leg to the left over the southwestern shore of Sicily. The complicated flight plan, high winds, and pilot inexperience combined into a recipe for disaster.Paratroopers were scattered all over the southern end of Sicily, while the glider-borne British tragically lost as many as 70 of their aircraft which were released prematurely and crashed into the sea. Only 87 British paras reached their objective, the key bridge at Ponte Grande, and ran into heavy resistance. Less than 20 of them survived, but they held the bridge until relieved by advancing ground troops the following morning.
Out of fear that the aircraft would be mistaken for Germans by the invasion fleet headed toward Sicily, the pilots were ordered to fly a circuitous route toward their drop zones. After visually sighting the island of Linosa in the Mediterranean Sea, the pilots were to fly on to Malta and dog leg to the left over the southwestern shore of Sicily. The complicated flight plan, high winds, and pilot inexperience combined into a recipe for disaster.Paratroopers were scattered all over the southern end of Sicily, while the glider-borne British tragically lost as many as 70 of their aircraft which were released prematurely and crashed into the sea. Only 87 British paras reached their objective, the key bridge at Ponte Grande, and ran into heavy resistance. Less than 20 of them survived, but they held the bridge until relieved by advancing ground troops the following morning.
