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Ejection Seats - Typhoon FGR4 & Hawk T1

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Ejection Seats - Typhoon FGR4 & Hawk T1

Old 22nd Jul 2022, 16:57
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Ejection Seats - Typhoon FGR4 & Hawk T1

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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 17:45
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If it affects the early Mk10B seats in the TMk1 and the Mk16 seats in Typhoon then it must almost certainly affect the lightweight Mk10 seats in the T2. Irrespective of foreign operators and their decision, the Leeming based Mk167s operating under MoD approval would also be affected unless there it is a supply chain issue that allows those to be treated separately.
Only other question is whether the F35 seat is similarly affected. Not good having all the frontline fast jets affected by the same issue.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 18:24
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RAFAT retweeted the announcement so I suspect they won't be, nor I expect will they be with the BOBMF at Bray (Co Wicklow) on Sunday.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 20:13
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From Luftwaffe: "We have been informed by the manufacturing company that a technical problem could affect the proper functioning of the ejection seats in our jets. As a precautionary measure, we have suspended training flight operations with the Eurofighter."

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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 20:28
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Germany suspended non-operational flying before the UK and initially included Tornado as well until it was confirmed that the component concerned came from a different production line.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 22:03
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Normal service resumed for the Reds but not Typhoon. .

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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 22:35
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Could be as simple as a dodgy batch of Bang. The investigation probably physically confirming the batches fitted to seats. Something that an accurate maintenance date system should highlight the offending batches. If the crayon eaters have done so properly. Nah, physical check.
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Old 26th Jul 2022, 19:16
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US Navy now reporting the same issue
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Old 27th Jul 2022, 17:00
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I noted a few Typhoons flying today out of RAF Coningsby. Typhoons also reported flying from RAF Lossiemouth.
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 08:19
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ETPS’s PC21s are affected. It’s a problem with the cartridges, as has been suggested.
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 12:08
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(US) Navy Times is reporting problems there as well
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...0-e5794efcfa7d

The issue involves cartridge actuated devices, or CADs, which deploy a parachute when aviators pull their ejection handle.

All told, the issue was found in the F/A-18B/C/D Hornet, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the E/A-18G Growler, as well as the T-45 Goshawk and F-5 Tiger II training aircraft.
airsound

PS Sorry, missed melmothtw above

Last edited by airsound; 28th Jul 2022 at 12:10. Reason: Adding melmothtw
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Old 28th Jul 2022, 17:48
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If anyone has a video caption translating tool, this Budneswehr video describes the problem

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Old 29th Jul 2022, 18:27
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Originally Posted by airsound View Post
(US) Navy Times is reporting problems there as well
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...0-e5794efcfa7d


airsound

PS Sorry, missed melmothtw above
My post seems to have been correct as well.
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Old 29th Jul 2022, 18:32
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F-35s in the frame now: https://breakingdefense.com/2022/07/...seat-concerns/
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Old 30th Jul 2022, 03:34
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29 Jul 2022 "...The Air Force says it has enough replacement explosive cartridges in stock to replace the faulty ones, a service official said. " https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2...-seats/375125/

HubbaHubba: Navy has completed F-35 ejection seat inspections; Marines at 90 percent - Breaking Defense

Lots of detail in this report - for example: "...ACC said it has known about the potential problem since April, when a routine inspection found a defective cartridge at Hill Air Force Base, Utah.... The Air Force has about 475 F-35s. A USAF spokesperson said “this is properly called a stand-down” rather than a grounding because the aircraft can resume flying after an inspection shows that they’re safe to operate...." 29 Jul 2022 https://www.airforcemag.com/air-forc...-parts-widens/

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 30th Jul 2022 at 04:03. Reason: +txts
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Old 1st Aug 2022, 05:54
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https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...ets-worldwide/

….
The military tested 2,700 F-35 ejection seat cartridges and discovered three failures as of Wednesday, the briefing summary said. Service officials declined to confirm or deny the summary’s narrative of events.

Roberts said the problem was unique to a particular cartridge number and to the F-35, but did not answer how many defective parts have turned up so far. The U.S.-led Joint Strike Fighter program conducted a “short inspection” and determined that the jets could return to flight, he said.

“Martin-Baker has been providing the [prime aircraft contractors like Lockheed Martin] and multiple [government] agencies with supporting data to prove that all other aircraft may be excluded,” Roberts said. “Outside the F-35, not a single anomaly has been discovered worldwide as a result of the forensic investigation which continues at pace.…..

On Wednesday, the Air Force temporarily stood down its T-38 Talon and T-6 Texan II training aircraft due to the same ejection seat worries. Most were slated to returned to service on Friday, but nearly 300 aircraft that may be affected by faulty cartridges will remain on the ground. That comprises about 40% of the T-38 fleet and 15% of the T-6 fleet, including planes at each undergraduate pilot training base and Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida.…
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Old 1st Aug 2022, 14:03
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I heard through the grapevine a rumor that the Meridian (Mississippi)-based Training Wing One had to cancel their up coming carrier landing quals (initial arrested landings) for the T-45 students due to this ejection seat disaster, and that the Air Force T-38 wings are running into similar problems with mass groundings. The reason I heard was that some seats were found to have no propellant. (But since I don't work on the MB's and have this second/third hand there may be some errors in transmission).
If you pull the handle and there's no propellant, there's no ejection and you are dead.
WTF, Martin Baker?

“Outside the F-35, not a single anomaly has been discovered worldwide as a result of the forensic investigation which continues at pace...
What I had heard was that there was an entire lot of seats that was bad. But I am happy to learn more as all of this is second and third hand at best.
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Old 1st Aug 2022, 14:29
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I` m guessing that `M-B`would not deliver `seats ready to go` out of the box.AIUI cartridges/propellant have a `shelf-life` and an `installed life` and it would be up to the Operating Authority/Unit to prepare seats for fitment.
Are the seats manufactured in the US by a Contractor under licence?
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Old 1st Aug 2022, 19:23
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https://breakingdefense.com/2022/07/...seat-concerns/
"...The [US] Navy’s Naval Surface Warfare Center Indian Head Division (NSWC IHD) supplies CADs and Propellant Actuated Devices for the entirety of the joint force, including the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps aircraft...."
_______________

https://www.defensenews.com/news/you...ets-worldwide/
“...During a routine maintenance inspection at Hill [Air Force Base, Utah,] in April ‘22, an anomaly was discovered with one of the seat cartridge actuated devices in the F-35 seat,” Steve Roberts, a spokesperson for seat manufacturer Martin-Baker, said Friday. “This was quickly traced back to a gap in the manufacturing process, which was addressed and changed.”

Cartridges are the ejection seat component that explode to propel an aviator out of the cockpit and prompts their parachute to open. The defective part was loose and missing the magnesium powder used to ignite the propellant that shoots someone to safety, Roberts said.

A maintainer inspecting an F-35 found that an ejection cartridge felt suspiciously light, according to an unconfirmed summary of a briefing within the Air Force’s Air Education and Training Command obtained by Air Force Times. After a closer look, the cartridge turned out to be missing its explosive charge that would lift someone to safety.

The military tested 2,700 F-35 ejection seat cartridges and discovered three failures as of Wednesday, the briefing summary said. Service officials declined to confirm or deny the summary’s narrative of events.

Roberts said the problem was unique to a particular cartridge number and to the F-35, but did not answer how many defective parts have turned up so far. The U.S.-led Joint Strike Fighter program conducted a “short inspection” and determined that the jets could return to flight, he said...."
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 06:22
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Originally Posted by sycamore View Post
I` m guessing that `M-B`would not deliver `seats ready to go` out of the box.AIUI cartridges/propellant have a `shelf-life` and an `installed life` and it would be up to the Operating Authority/Unit to prepare seats for fitment.
Correct. M-B have never delivered a seat with cartridges fitted.

The various statements don't make it clear if it's the percussion cap or the filling, neither of which M-B make. However, it may be they're seen to deliver the assembled cartridge. The important thing is that, while annoying, the system picked the problem up.
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