Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

F/A-18 Super Hornet Lost Overboard Off CVN In Mediterranean

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

F/A-18 Super Hornet Lost Overboard Off CVN In Mediterranean

Old 14th Jul 2022, 00:40
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Youse'll have to zoom in to this GIF to read the text: https://play.google.com/books/reader...GBS.PP88&hl=en [text now next page]

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 14th Jul 2022 at 05:11. Reason: txt
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2022, 01:27
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FULL text of above MUDDINESS. MUD TRAP! - APPROACH Aug 1964
https://play.google.com/books/reader...GBS.PP88&hl=en
After touchdown an A-4B overran the runway, entered a 3-foot-deep pond with power on and buried itself in the mud bottom. The pilot was uninjured. After a sudden rush of mud and water into the cockpit floor area, the apertures sealed slowing the flow to a trickle. Because of the complete darkness the pilot knew he was submerged. He could judge the aircraft's attitude by the level of the mud and water. With his oxygen equipment performing satisfactorily, he had no trouble breathing.

The pilot's first reaction was to jettison the canopy by pulling the emergency canopy jettison. When this didn't work, he unlocked the canopy manually. Standing on the seat, he tried to force it open with his back and shoulders. He had to take his oxygen mask off because the hose was too short for him to stand with the mask on. He soon began to hyperventilate. Every few minutes he stopped and breathed from his mask. Mud had fouled the inhalation valve preventing normal exhalation through the mask.

At some point during his attempts to open the canopy, he tried to jettison it by pulling the face curtain down to the first notch. He states he was careful not to pull the curtain to its full length lest he fire the seat. There was an explosion but no apparent effect on the canopy. (Note: The face curtain is not, repeat, is not an alternate canopy release handle. A fatal inadvertent zero-zero ejection has occurred in this aircraft because a pilot attempted to jettison his canopy by using the face curtain.--Ed.) Finally, fatigued and aware there was nothing he could do, he quietly awaited rescue. Once in a while he moved the stick so that movement of the elevators would show he was still alive. The rescue party rapped on the canopy to indicate work was underway but he did not hear them. He stated later that if he had had a survival knife he probably would have attempted to hack his way out.

"Escape from a cockpit buried in mud presents problems not encountered with the usual accident involving an underwater situation." the investigating flight surgeon states. "The following areas concerning this situation seem to warrant some thought and investigation:

"While it is known that most oxygen regulators used in high performance aircraft have underwater capabilities, the question arises as to what their performance would be even if properly utilized in an 'under mud' situation. The importance of keeping the face seal intact under such circumstances is well demonstrated by the manner in which the pilot allowed his inhalation valve to become fouled.

"The wisdom of opening the canopy under such circumstances is questioned, bearing in mind:
- Entry of mud into the cockpit.
- Possible failure of oxygen equipment secondary to mud damage.
- Difficulty of maneuvering to surface through mud.
- Drag produced by bulky clothing and attached gear.
- Limited oxygen supply available once the pilot switched to bailout bottle. This has been estimated as approximately three minutes under pressure such as present in this aircraft accident.
- Possibility of imminent rescue from outside help.
- Probability that as long as the aircraft's oxygen supply was available the pilot could safely utilize it, thus allowing time for rescue work to be accomplished.
- Fact that a small hole in the canopy such as could be made with a survival knife will not equalize internal and external cockpit pressures as in an underwater situation."

Rescue operations were hindered in this accident by both the crash crew's lack of knowledge of the location of the A-4B's external emergency canopy jettison handles and by the lack of equipment. A crane was not immediately available because there was no driver assigned; all the qualified drivers were at the accident scene. A driver was dispatched to bring the crane. In the meantime, two men familiar with the jettison handle positions obtained a shovel and together dug the mud away from the left side. They activated the left handle, then the right handle with no results.

When the crane arrived, the aircraft was raised and the canopy was opened by means of the canopy access handle which was partially activated. The pilot was then free.

The investigating flight surgeon estimates that the delay in obtaining the services of the crane added 10 to 15 minutes to the rescue time. Under other circumstances this interval might have been crucial."
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2022, 21:46
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AVIATION MEDECINE http://www.fleetairarmoa.org/Content...00_ISSUE_5.PDF
"It is perhaps not surprising that from the earliest exploits of the Royal Naval Air Service, interest in survival at sea attracted the attention of a unique breed of doctors – Medical Officers with a specialist knowledge of Aviation Medicine....

...Sir John Rawlins was the Navy’s first Specialist in Aviation Medicine at Farnborough and is highly respected for his work in the field of naval aviation safety. In 1950 he was awarded the MBE for his work on protective helmets, the early bone domes and in 1960 he was advanced to OBE for his experiments to develop a method of enabling aircrew to eject from an aircraft that had submerged under water. Months of meticulous trials were carried out during which Surgeon Lieutenant Commander Sandy Davidson RN (later Surg Captain OBE) bravely conducted a live test ejection underwater...."
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
UnderWaterEjectionRN pp2.pdf (369.9 KB, 8 views)
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2022, 07:59
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 3,978
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 6 Posts
Medical Officers with a specialist knowledge of Aviation Medicine....
RAAF pilot course 83 had Surgeon Leut Marty Samuels, and 84 course had Surgeon Leut Michael Flynn, who rose to be Commodore and head of the Naval Medical services.
Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2022, 08:57
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sadly Marty died some time back. Mick [olden daze phot] goes well enough. Would you have a JPG/ graphic of No84 Pilot Course BADGE please? TAH. I have the course photos from the RAAF website etc.
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2022, 09:36
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Then SurgLeut Sandy Davidson testing a wet seat JPG from 'AvMed' PDF story above.

SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2022, 13:41
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
F/A-18 Super Hornet Lost Overboard Off CVN In Mediterranean

It would be interesting to read the final report into this aircraft misadventure, luckily no loss of life. I can only presume that part of well-defined procedure was omitted in order for such a calamity to occur.

My recollection is relating to XT269 departing from HMS Ark Royal 15/2/1972 (and I don’t believe the procedures have changed that much).

XT269 was being moved from the lower deck hangar ‘post maintenance’ very early on a mild calm morning around 05:30. The handling team positioned the aircraft on the starboard side aft of the island. The plane captain applied the brakes (only effective if the accumulator is sufficiently charged) and then started to affix the mandatory 6 lashing chains. As he was fitting the first chain (which would have stopped the aircraft rolling forward), the pin connecting the aircraft tug to the towing arm was removed. Unfortunately the main wheel chocks had not been inserted and the ship gently rolled to starboard; the aircraft still attached to the towing arm very slowly rolled backwards and departed the flight deck tearing out some safety rails/nets. It sank very quickly and left behind a radome to indicate X marks the spot.

I understand the ‘storm’ mentioned at the time was not weather related but possibly commenced around the same time XT269 touched down on the sea bed! Some time later the Killick aircraft handler was fined £20.00 and a loss of 2 weeks shore leave on Captains defaulters.

The filming of a subsequent aircraft XN954 completing a similar flight profile was used as a safety training aid to show ‘what to do correctly’ to prevent it happening again. The film posted seems to show that chocks were not fitted, a lashing chain was connected but sheared and the aircraft departed over the round-down without a towing arm attached; there is no actual information as to what was done incorrectly.

As previously posted, aircraft are fully secured at all times unless being positioned and there are well defined procedures for these events, as there are for replenishment at sea which to my knowledge rarely takes place in adverse weather or the possibility of adverse weather, neither is a RAS normally undertaken between launching and recovering of fixed wing aircraft.

I understand ‘shear pins’ may be installed on aircraft tow equipment to protect aircraft structure in extreme events, such as being blown overboard. If this is indeed what happened, the tug driver and aircraft brakeman were exceedingly lucky.


Attached Files
File Type: pdf
960x0.pdf (45.3 KB, 22 views)
lefty loose is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2022, 14:59
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This is the evolution photo I had in mind [sadly have lost details] - JPG sent by a former A4G pilot gone to SHARs. I'll look for more photos/details....

SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2022, 15:13
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In JPG note the F-35B 'humping it' on the left side of the photo.

Striking back
- Dec 2021 Richard Scott - Flight International December 2021 [4 page PDF attached]
...Units and air wings undertook both day and night flying; a number of anti-submarine/anti-surface warfare activities were completed; and flight operations were conducted from Queen Elizabeth concurrent with replenishment at sea operations.

“We were flying fixed-wing almost continuously through the 24-hour period, which is something the US doesn’t do – they surge for 15-hour, maybe 18- hour periods, whereas we were able to keep flying over 24 hours, fixed and rotary-wing,” says Moorhouse. “It really allowed us to show the unique flexibility and agility of Queen Elizabeth-class aviation.

For example, flying fixed-wing while replenishing is really quite straightforward for us once you’ve got everyone trained and good to go. And we don’t need much wind [over the deck] to launch the jets, even at full weights in hot conditions.

“We are clearly different to an American CVN [nuclear-powered carrier],” he adds. “We don’t have catapults and arrestor gear, we’re not in the same scale in terms of air wing size, and the F-35B does not have the same legs.

“But [Queen Elizabeth] offers something completely different in its agility to get aircraft up and off. A CVN is incredibly impressive, but it is operated very differently and simply does not have the same flexibility.”..."

Attached Files

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 16th Jul 2022 at 15:23. Reason: + jpg
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2022, 15:26
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...it-of-malacca/ "An F-35B Jet from VMFA-211 lands back on HMS Queen Elizabeth whilst she conducts a double replenishment with RFA Tidespring and HNLMS Evertsen. Royal Navy picture." https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content...of-Malacca.jpg

SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2022, 02:46
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How to TIE YOUR KANGAROO DOWN SPORT on CVN PDF attached: http://info.publicintelligence.net/U...FlightDeck.pdf

Attached Files
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2022, 02:51
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
HOW to TIE DOWN LIGHTNING: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5732/...ec6166_o_d.jpg (3.6Mb)


SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2022, 06:26
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 3,978
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 6 Posts
For Sinbad:


Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2022, 06:27
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In 1978 two sailors were washed overboard from the forward port catwalk around the flight deck of HMS Ark Royal by a freak wave during a RAS. IIRC the flight deck was approximately 55 feet above sea level. Luckily they passed between the carrier and the fleet auxiliary and were rescued thanks to the prompt action of the SAR crew on standby for just such an event.
Fly3 is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2022, 06:54
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many thanks 'Ascend Charlie'. Ripper badge - YOSEMITE SAM - speakin' PIRATE?
"In Captain Hareblower, Yosemite Sam is a pirate captain who is able to intimidate and scare sailors and other pirates. Captain Sam encounters a trading ship led by Bugs Bunny and decides to take it for himself." Yosemite Sam - Wikipedia & Pirate Speak Translator ― LingoJam
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2022, 04:56
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another version: 66 years ago today a pilot ejected from an aeroplane trapped underwater! | Hush-Kit (hushkit.net)

Originally Posted by uxb99 View Post
Have there ever been any successful underwater ejections?
UNDERWATER ESCAPE from a WYVERN - Naval Aviation News Mar 1955 https://www.history.navy.mil/content.../pdf/mar55.pdf

"...A reviewing Naval officer said, "It is important to note that the air bubble created by the closed canopy undoubtedly saved the pilot from the extremely harmful compressibility effects of the ejection seat cartridge explosion." MacFarlane's [Wyvern Pilot] comment after recovery was a masterful understatement: "I was in a highly nervous state, for catapulting is a very startling experience."


Last edited by SpazSinbad; 25th Jul 2022 at 10:33. Reason: anotherie
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 09:46
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another tall tale but true from the legendary past about operating in HORRIBLE conditions. PDF attached has full story.
F-14 Tomcat: Tales from the cockpit-50th Anniversary [Tomcat] Edition
“Kevin Sullivan is an F-14 pilot who chased North Korean MiG-21s, served as a TOPGUN instructor and flew Mirage IIIO(A)s with the Royal Australian Air Force…. ...Some days, the ship took green water over the bow, a sure indication of 60ft plus seas. It was extreme weather with 50 knots of wind. Kevin said flight operations continued in quite significant sea states, but flight ops would cease when the ship was taking water over the bow. In heavy sea states, the catapuIt officer visually gauged the deck going up and down. He shot an aircraft off as the deck was going down so the jet shot off the end as the bow came back up. Kevin said: “As you’re going down the catapult stroke, the bow is pointing at the ocean. There’s ocean right in front of you. No matter how many times you experienced it, it never became routine!’..."
Attached Files
SpazSinbad is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2022, 03:46
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: California
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SpazSinbad View Post
Another tall tale but true from the legendary past about operating in HORRIBLE conditions. PDF attached has full story.
F-14 Tomcat: Tales from the cockpit-50th Anniversary [Tomcat] Edition
“Kevin Sullivan is an F-14 pilot who chased North Korean MiG-21s, served as a TOPGUN instructor and flew Mirage IIIO(A)s with the Royal Australian Air Force…. ...Some days, the ship took green water over the bow, a sure indication of 60ft plus seas. It was extreme weather with 50 knots of wind. Kevin said flight operations continued in quite significant sea states, but flight ops would cease when the ship was taking water over the bow. In heavy sea states, the catapuIt officer visually gauged the deck going up and down. He shot an aircraft off as the deck was going down so the jet shot off the end as the bow came back up. Kevin said: “As you’re going down the catapult stroke, the bow is pointing at the ocean. There’s ocean right in front of you. No matter how many times you experienced it, it never became routine!’..."
Straying off topic a little - Kevin Sullivan was the captain of QF72 - the A330 uncommanded pitchdown incident a number of years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_72
TheWestCoast is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2022, 05:06
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,770
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Kevin Sullivan was the captain of QF72 - the A330 uncommanded pitchdown incident a number of years ago
The QF event he rode through and brought home safe and sound showed it's not just combat or FJ flying that can tax ones sensibilities, not a good way to end a superlative career, feel sorry for him and wish him the very best.
megan is online now  
Old 8th Aug 2022, 21:13
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 74
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...terranean-sea/ 08 Aug 2022 "The aircraft was recovered from a depth of approximately 9,500 feet by a team from Task Force (CTF) 68, Naval Sea Systems Command’s Supervisor of Salvage and Diving (SUPSALV), Harry S. Truman, Naval Strike Fighter Wing Atlantic, and U.S. Sixth Fleet embarked on the multi-purpose construction vessel (MPV) Everest.... The aircraft was recovered using a CURV-21 remotely operated vehicle to attach specialized rigging and lift lines to the aircraft. A lifting hook was attached to the rigging to raise the aircraft to the surface and hoist it aboard Everest...."
SpazSinbad is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.