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J-20 has a name

Old 9th Jun 2022, 10:28
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J-20 has a name

Just heard from a buddy, China's J-20 has been named the FAGIN. It's apparently named after the character from Oliver Twist. He's a receiver of stolen goods. Great choice.
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 17:46
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Is that the name given to it by the Chinese themselves, or is that a name given to it by outsiders?
(Not sure what FAGIN means in Chinese: anyone know?)
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 17:57
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
Is that the name given to it by the Chinese themselves, or is that a name given to it by outsiders?
(Not sure what FAGIN means in Chinese: anyone know?)
If true, probably the NATO reporting name.
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 17:58
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NATO name, presumably.
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 21:11
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That's correct, joins FLANKER, FULCRUM etc.
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 22:17
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I tried to find the origins but failed - by memory it is F for fighter, two syllables for jet powered, similarly Bear is a bomber but not jet-powered.
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Old 9th Jun 2022, 23:31
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
I tried to find the origins but failed - by memory it is F for fighter, two syllables for jet powered, similarly Bear is a bomber but not jet-powered.
You are on the right track, two syllables for jets, but BEAR is single syllable, therefore prop.
Also these are often incorrectly referred to (even by Wiki, who would have thought?) as NATO names.
Althought they are used by NATO, the names come from the ATIE tech group, then approved by the ASCC standards body.
In the late 1990s this process was given the flick as the designators of Russian and Chinese aircraft were well known, and therefore no need for codenames.
Accordingly, the J-10 received no name, nor have others since.
So I would be surprised if this "FAGIN" tag has officially been allocated to the J-20.

Last edited by BBadanov; 10th Jun 2022 at 06:23. Reason: sp
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 01:06
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Correct me if I’m wrong but this Shakespearean character would be pronounced 费金 “Fei Jin” in Chinese texts.
Sounds more like a wind-up, though.

Last edited by jolihokistix; 10th Jun 2022 at 01:23.
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 01:32
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Not sure what FAGIN means in Chinese: anyone know
Probably the same as in English - receiver of stolen goods, wiki.
Fagin is a confessed miser who, despite the wealth that he has acquired, does very little to improve the squalid lives of the children he guards, or his own. In the second chapter of his appearance, he is shown (when talking to himself) that he cares less for their welfare, than that they do not "peach" (inform) on him and the other children. Still darker sides to the character's nature are shown when he beats the ArtfulDodger for not bringing Oliver back; in his attempted beating of Oliver for trying to escape; and in his own involvement with various plots and schemes throughout the story. He indirectly but intentionally causes the death of Nancy by falsely informing Sikes that she had betrayed him, when in reality she had shielded Sikes from the law, whereupon Sikes kills her. Near the end of the book, Fagin is captured and sentenced to be hanged, in a chapter that portrays him as pitiable in his anguish.In popular culture, Fagin (or at least his name) is used in comparison with adults who use children for illegal activities.
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 05:55
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Was "Flop" already taken for other hardware?
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 07:04
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Been out for a couple of years, but naming Russian and Chinese kit definitely didn't stop in the late 1990s. J-10 FIREBIRD. I think Su-57 FELON was announced last year, or maybe even this year? Confirmed it again today, J-20 FAGIN. It's the name of the character from the book, nothing to do with any Chinese words. If you know any fast jet aircrew or INT types they will be able to confirm it.
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 08:51
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History of "put down" names

The Tu-22 was originally "Beauty" but was changed to "Blinder" - bit childish really
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 11:25
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Originally Posted by BBadanov View Post
You are on the right track, two syllables for jets, but BEAR is single syllable, therefore prop.
Also these are often incorrectly referred to (even by Wiki, who would have thought?) as NATO names.
Althought they are used by NATO, the names come from the ATIE tech group, then approved by the ASCC standards body.
In the late 1990s this process was given the flick as the designators of Russian and Chinese aircraft were well known, and therefore no need for codenames.
Accordingly, the J-10 received no name, nor have others since.
.


I've seen Firebird quoted for the J-10 and Felon for the Su-57.
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 11:44
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Correct me if I’m wrong but this Shakespearean character would be pronounced 费金 “Fei Jin” in Chinese texts.
Sounds more like a wind-up, though.
Dickensian: Charles Dickens wrote Oliver Twist.
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 12:19
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The story in FRI a long time ago was that Blinder was originally assigned to the Tu-128, but then it appeared at Tushino in 1961 carrying AAMs.

Meanwhile, the Tu-22 at Tushino was a surprise.

So the face-saving maneuver was to rename Tu-128 as Fiddler, reassign the name to the Tu-22, and let people know that, yes, we've been carrying Blinder on the books for a while,

As for Beauty, the story was that an air attache at the show said "wow, that's a beauty" and a press reptile within earshot ran with it.
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Old 10th Jun 2022, 16:27
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Correct me if I’m wrong but this Shakespearean character would be pronounced 费金 “Fei Jin” in Chinese texts.
Sounds more like a wind-up, though.
May I dare to correct you and point out that, however it is pronounced, "Fagin" is more Dickensian than Shakespearean....😁

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Old 10th Jun 2022, 23:18
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Jack. Oops, good spot! (Damn predictive text…)

Last edited by jolihokistix; 11th Jun 2022 at 01:27.
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