Discrimination and Prejudice alive and well in the RAF

[mopardave]

Originally Posted by cynicalint

If the joke has to be explained to you, then the thickness of skin is irrelevant!

Indeed cynicalint......indeed. Ah well.

[Red Line Entry]

So the fact is WE DO SELECT BY APPEARANCE - because too many BAME individuals who would be great in the RAF do not apply in the first place.

Oh we do, do we? So how on earth can you "select" people who don't make themselves available for ........errrrrr, selection! By all means encourage the best to apply, regardless of race or gender but what a ridiculous statement to make!

Sigh.....Dave, that was the whole point of what I wrote. Of course we can't select people who don't apply. Therefore, what we can do is encourage more people to apply and we do this, in part, by positive action steps such as highlighting those from such communities who have joined. And of course, this is a complicated area, the B Word makes some good points about ingrained beliefs in some of those communities. This makes it all the more important for us to make efforts to break down those stereotypes. None of this should be contentious, and neither should the implication be drawn that this is any way minimises the contribution of those of us who look more like those stereotypes. However, this is the internet - I just can't remember if I came for the 5 minute argument or the 10 minute one...

[SASless]

"Preferably not White Male".....is that poorly written in today's PC World?

Would a White Male (at Birth) but who now self Identifies as a Black Female an eligible for that selection?

I would suggest the selection criteria needs much fleshing out.....to effectively describe the subsets of RAF Pilots that meet the desired criteria as what was posted is far too vague and does not provide equity of outcomes for all who might be interested in the Opening(s).

After that....the criticisms would be far better focused.

[vascodegama]

RLE much though I disagree with a lot of what you say , you are , of course, right that this is not discrimination but positive action. What pissed me off with the whole thing was the low standard of comms.

I suspect that you are in for the full half hour argument !

[Wokkafans]

Apparently the RAF/MOD has now "apologised" for the Tweet. Apologies for the source... .

"A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: 'This language should not have been used and we apologise for any offence caused. We are determined to encourage more people, no matter their sex or race, into the RAF.'"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Gun-event.html

[Nil_Drift]

"Gareth and I" .... it would seem that nobody has picked up on the fact that it should be "Gareth and me". Probably Sarah is one of those who never uses "me" and uses "myself" every time. Well qualified to be a high profile Comms 'expert' for the RAF.

[vascodegama]

ND

See post 2. The use of quick not quickly wasn’t much better.

[langleybaston]

"This language should not have been used" can be taken as

"the thrust of the message was OK, but badly expressed".

[Stratnumberone]

I suspect that this sorry s**t show will have ‘successfully’ discouraged people from all backgrounds from considering a career in the RAF. Well done all involved!

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Nil_Drift

"Gareth and I" .... it would seem that nobody has picked up on the fact that it should be "Gareth and me".

Actually, post #2 made reference to that.

[Darkmouse]

Who cares? If someone (who's eligible) has the same burning desire as the rest of us to be RAF pilots from the moment they can first remember, there is nothing stopping them. The colour, sexuality etc of the individual makes no difference, in the same way that the person appearing at the topgun 2 premier (which I think will be rubbish btw) makes not a jot of difference to anything.

Yes, we could debate many things regarding society, and I'm keen to, as I love nothing more than good debate, but what does it matter? I shall open with, "not a jot.".

[Nil_Drift]

Actually, post #2 made reference to that.

I admit that I didn't re-read the whole thread to ensure that I didn't replicate somebody else's observation but it was about 64 comments earlier.

However, you restated what Vasco said just 3 comments above so, if we were scoring [which we're not], it would be 1-0, would it not?

[Widger]

Its irrelevant what race, sex, colour or creed the person is. Top Gun and the sequel Top Gun Maverick is about the US Navy Fighter Weapons school and the crabs should steer well clear of jumping on the maritime bandwagon.

[langleybaston]

It is a very small bandwagon so, yes, not enough room.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Anyone stop to consider that BAME is statistically under represented as pilots because:

a) They don't want to be pilots.
b) Family and cultural pressures steer them to more "respectable" occupations like doctors, solicitors, accountants or surgeons.

Junior may wish to become the newer model E-Reg, but that matters not if mummy and daddy want to say their child is an important banker in the City.

I am all for getting the right person for the job no matter what their creed or colour or limb count, but the bottom line is they have to want to do it, and they need family support before any positive-discrimination vid will have an impact.

As a parting shot, I think every "White Male Pilot" should reply to Sarah and Gareth with a simple "Why can I not apply?"

[Hydromet]

Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

Anyone stop to consider that BAME is statistically under represented as pilots because:

a) They don't want to be pilots.
b) Family and cultural pressures steer them to more "respectable" occupations like doctors, solicitors, accountants or surgeons.

Junior may wish to become the newer model E-Reg, but that matters not if mummy and daddy want to say their child is an important banker in the City.

I am all for getting the right person for the job no matter what their creed or colour or limb count, but the bottom line is they have to want to do it, and they need family support before any positive-discrimination vid will have an impact.

As a parting shot, I think every "White Male Pilot" should reply to Sarah and Gareth with a simple "Why can I not apply?"

Excellent points, SWB. A couple of years ago I was sat for the duration of a ~10 hour flight next to an extremely pleasant, intelligent and urbane young man of Indian descent, who had just left school with excellent results in all subjects. He'd been in and enjoyed Air Cadets or ATC, whatever it was at the time - in fact it was one of his main topics of conversation - but was off to university to do an economics/business degree.
I don't know what guided his decision, but it may well have been parental pressure. Equally, I guess, it may have been his own decision based on other reasons, but he was certainly going to miss the aviation environment.

[mopardave]

Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

Anyone stop to consider that BAME is statistically under represented as pilots because:

a) They don't want to be pilots.
b) Family and cultural pressures steer them to more "respectable" occupations like doctors, solicitors, accountants or surgeons.

Junior may wish to become the newer model E-Reg, but that matters not if mummy and daddy want to say their child is an important banker in the City.

I am all for getting the right person for the job no matter what their creed or colour or limb count, but the bottom line is they have to want to do it, and they need family support before any positive-discrimination vid will have an impact.

As a parting shot, I think every "White Male Pilot" should reply to Sarah and Gareth with a simple "Why can I not apply?"

Absolutely SWB...........Sarah and Gareth need to attend an equalities and diversity course pronto! Many years ago, my boss represented the blue light services at a college open day. A lovely guy and a fine ambassador for the service. Anyway, he decides it's about time we "target" females of Asian descent........he could still here the laughter as he was driving away. He couldn't believe the disdain and incredulity at his suggestion of a career in the emergency services. Granted, it would have been 20 years ago but maybe other sections of the community need to be more open minded? If you've got what it takes and you want to do it, you'll do it.........to suggest that discrimination is the reason is very convenient. You can lead a horse to water...................

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Originally Posted by MPN11

...Whenever I say I was in the RAF, the immediate response is “Were you a Pilot?”.

Surely, everyone knows that you don't need to ask "were you a pilot?".

A "real" pilot will tell you in their opening sentence ;-)

[[email protected]]

A "real" pilot will tell you in their opening sentence ;-)

With the right amount of swagger and testosterone, the words don't even have to leave your mouth - people just know you are part of the two-winged master race

[MPN11]

... and the big free watch.