Falklands 40
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by gums
Salute!
Nice hole in the jet, Mog!
Looks like a .50 cal or 12.7 API or maybe a wimp 20mm thing. The pic resembles those I saw mostly. As long as they didn't hit a spar or half-empty fuel tank, very survivable.
Gums sends...
Nice hole in the jet, Mog!
Looks like a .50 cal or 12.7 API or maybe a wimp 20mm thing. The pic resembles those I saw mostly. As long as they didn't hit a spar or half-empty fuel tank, very survivable.
Gums sends...
Yes, 20mm HE from a Rheinmetall 202 firing 40 rounds a second. Hate to think where the other 120 odd rounds went! Didn’t half make a bang. Fortunately he didn’t quite get the lead right and hit the only bit of the aircraft that was not engine, fuel tank or pink bits.
Mog
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Originally Posted by Mogwi
Hail Gums!
Yes, 20mm HE from a Rheinmetall 202 firing 40 rounds a second. Hate to think where the other 120 odd rounds went! Didn’t half make a bang. Fortunately he didn’t quite get the lead right and hit the only bit of the aircraft that was not engine, fuel tank or pink bits.
Mog
Yes, 20mm HE from a Rheinmetall 202 firing 40 rounds a second. Hate to think where the other 120 odd rounds went! Didn’t half make a bang. Fortunately he didn’t quite get the lead right and hit the only bit of the aircraft that was not engine, fuel tank or pink bits.
Mog
Mog, I know you have done some post 1982 visits to certain sites and outreach to the other participants, did you ever pinpoint or visit the AAA site or find which crews were on the other end of the 202?
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Originally Posted by N707ZS
Did the RAF ever fly any of the Pucaras that we salvaged from the Falklands.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 5th May 2022 at 20:35. Reason: Hyperlink to pontifex
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Having spent 6 months ‘holding’ on 1(F) Sqn and living in the Wittering OM in ‘80/81, I watched from the sidelines as mates from both the RAF and RN sailed south and mourned when I learnt that some weren’t coming back. During that period I became particular friends with Lt Steve Thomas, honing our skills on the bar Galaxian machine. Like to think I played my part in developing his air combat skills. Last saw him in ‘85 and all attempts to track him down have failed. Anyone have any ideas?
Originally Posted by grobbling about
Having spent 6 months ‘holding’ on 1(F) Sqn and living in the Wittering OM in ‘80/81, I watched from the sidelines as mates from both the RAF and RN sailed south and mourned when I learnt that some weren’t coming back. During that period I became particular friends with Lt Steve Thomas, honing our skills on the bar Galaxian machine. Like to think I played my part in developing his air combat skills. Last saw him in ‘85 and all attempts to track him down have failed. Anyone have any ideas?
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by sandiego89
That is an attention getter!
Mog, I know you have done some post 1982 visits to certain sites and outreach to the other participants, did you ever pinpoint or visit the AAA site or find which crews were on the other end of the 202?
Mog, I know you have done some post 1982 visits to certain sites and outreach to the other participants, did you ever pinpoint or visit the AAA site or find which crews were on the other end of the 202?
There were a fair number of 202s around the airfield (and Oerlikon 35 mm) but only one survives today, to the north of the strip. I think that one was too far north to have been the one responsible, more likely to be one a bit east of the tower. No, I have never found out who the operator was but as you say, I have met and made friends with a number of Argentine vets as well as the son of one of the Skyhawks we shot down on 8th June.
Can’t see that happening after the present furore in Ukraine.
Mog
Salute!
Interesting point, Mog.
Once we left the war to the locals, the North Vee were very accommodating with our MIA recovery efforts. After the real end of the war in 1975, things got even better,
My comrades that have gone back have had nice relations, including one guy that bombed a village during a CSAR mission due to a AAA gun near a church. He sat down one day 20 years later with a village elder and had a beer. The Misty FAC's have gone back and had similar encounters. The answer is simple, but that's for another thread with less censorship.
Gums sends...
Interesting point, Mog.
Once we left the war to the locals, the North Vee were very accommodating with our MIA recovery efforts. After the real end of the war in 1975, things got even better,
My comrades that have gone back have had nice relations, including one guy that bombed a village during a CSAR mission due to a AAA gun near a church. He sat down one day 20 years later with a village elder and had a beer. The Misty FAC's have gone back and had similar encounters. The answer is simple, but that's for another thread with less censorship.
Gums sends...
Originally Posted by Mogwi
Hi Sandy,
There were a fair number of 202s around the airfield (and Oerlikon 35 mm) but only one survives today, to the north of the strip. I think that one was too far north to have been the one responsible, more likely to be one a bit east of the tower. No, I have never found out who the operator was but as you say, I have met and made friends with a number of Argentine vets as well as the son of one of the Skyhawks we shot down on 8th June.
Can’t see that happening after the present furore in Ukraine.
Mog
There were a fair number of 202s around the airfield (and Oerlikon 35 mm) but only one survives today, to the north of the strip. I think that one was too far north to have been the one responsible, more likely to be one a bit east of the tower. No, I have never found out who the operator was but as you say, I have met and made friends with a number of Argentine vets as well as the son of one of the Skyhawks we shot down on 8th June.
Can’t see that happening after the present furore in Ukraine.
Mog
This somewhat optimistic video was recently released on Youtube regarding the 1st May attack by your squadron. Whilst it is in Spanish, for those who aren't speakers it is possible to watch it with subtitle on, and then on the settings you can select auto-translate and then English from the list.
It identifies the location of some of the AAA sites and interviews with some of those that were shooting. Obviously, they're pretty sure they shot down some aircraft, including on that impacted into the sea 300m from the beach - but at least it gives you an idea. Did the Tartan section really get that close with the loft bombing and come under fire Mogs? I do happen to know some members of that unit who don't have such rose tinted glasses - and and put the exaggerated claims down to inexperience. A Marine tigercat crew also optimistically claimed a shoot down that several of their team claim to have witnessed crashing - and I'd like to have several pints of what they were drinking - the Tigercat was fired from further down near the ESRO station at the far end of the harbour - so fat chance... anyway - it's interesting viewing in spite of the optimism. I was going to send you the link by email - but might as well share it here.
As you know, Mogs, not everyone from that area of south america is so distorted.
Cheers
Andy
Andy
Thanks very much for posting that video.
Fascinating.
Whatever their claims, they were undoubtedly a very effective deterrent to many attacks by us against the airfield, so even if they didn't actually shoot down a number of aircraft, they most certainly stopped us from carrying out more effective attacks than we did. Well done them!
If the black dots are representative of 1000lb bombs landing in the area, then I can claim at least some of them - even if many of them didn't actually hit anything worthwhile! I assume the Black Buck raids offer some of the strings shown, so well done to those guys and their tanker supporters!!
Perhaps we were as good a deterrent against them using the airfield to better effect as they were to us from attacking it better.
So war has different views from different sides, and different effects.
But war is not a good way to resolve differences, as we are seeing in Ukraine.
Thanks for that - great video.
Thanks very much for posting that video.
Fascinating.
Whatever their claims, they were undoubtedly a very effective deterrent to many attacks by us against the airfield, so even if they didn't actually shoot down a number of aircraft, they most certainly stopped us from carrying out more effective attacks than we did. Well done them!
If the black dots are representative of 1000lb bombs landing in the area, then I can claim at least some of them - even if many of them didn't actually hit anything worthwhile! I assume the Black Buck raids offer some of the strings shown, so well done to those guys and their tanker supporters!!
Perhaps we were as good a deterrent against them using the airfield to better effect as they were to us from attacking it better.
So war has different views from different sides, and different effects.
But war is not a good way to resolve differences, as we are seeing in Ukraine.
Thanks for that - great video.
I made a detailed 1/24th Scale model of Mogwi’s skirmished aircraft. I was actually contacted by Gordi Batt’s son giving me praise on the kit on how his dad would have flown it at the time.
I was 13 at the time and transfixed with the coverage back home on what was going on. I recall recording every broadcast on our new Video recorder with buttons; more like levers the size of lollipop sticks!.
Steve.
I was 13 at the time and transfixed with the coverage back home on what was going on. I recall recording every broadcast on our new Video recorder with buttons; more like levers the size of lollipop sticks!.
Steve.
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by AndySmith
Hi Mogs
This somewhat optimistic video was recently released on Youtube regarding the 1st May attack by your squadron. Whilst it is in Spanish, for those who aren't speakers it is possible to watch it with subtitle on, and then on the settings you can select auto-translate and then English from the list.
It identifies the location of some of the AAA sites and interviews with some of those that were shooting. Obviously, they're pretty sure they shot down some aircraft, including on that impacted into the sea 300m from the beach - but at least it gives you an idea. Did the Tartan section really get that close with the loft bombing and come under fire Mogs? I do happen to know some members of that unit who don't have such rose tinted glasses - and and put the exaggerated claims down to inexperience. A Marine tigercat crew also optimistically claimed a shoot down that several of their team claim to have witnessed crashing - and I'd like to have several pints of what they were drinking - the Tigercat was fired from further down near the ESRO station at the far end of the harbour - so fat chance... anyway - it's interesting viewing in spite of the optimism. I was going to send you the link by email - but might as well share it here.
The alternative reality of 1st May
As you know, Mogs, not everyone from that area of south america is so distorted.
Cheers
Andy
This somewhat optimistic video was recently released on Youtube regarding the 1st May attack by your squadron. Whilst it is in Spanish, for those who aren't speakers it is possible to watch it with subtitle on, and then on the settings you can select auto-translate and then English from the list.
It identifies the location of some of the AAA sites and interviews with some of those that were shooting. Obviously, they're pretty sure they shot down some aircraft, including on that impacted into the sea 300m from the beach - but at least it gives you an idea. Did the Tartan section really get that close with the loft bombing and come under fire Mogs? I do happen to know some members of that unit who don't have such rose tinted glasses - and and put the exaggerated claims down to inexperience. A Marine tigercat crew also optimistically claimed a shoot down that several of their team claim to have witnessed crashing - and I'd like to have several pints of what they were drinking - the Tigercat was fired from further down near the ESRO station at the far end of the harbour - so fat chance... anyway - it's interesting viewing in spite of the optimism. I was going to send you the link by email - but might as well share it here.
The alternative reality of 1st May
As you know, Mogs, not everyone from that area of south america is so distorted.
Cheers
Andy
On the positive side, I reckon it might have been fire-point 6 that hit me and I did have a Tigercat cross my nose, right to left, chasing Bertie P down the runway.
Interesting day!
Mog
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I was thinking of the time I was on UK leave from Brunei and sat with my Dad watching the fleet set sail for the Falklands. He watched the shots of crew practicing going to Action Stations and commented ominously, "Wait until they do it for real and then they'll know..." Was that really 40 years ago?
40 years! I realised that when I bought my Dad a pint in the Sergeants Mess a few days before my demob, it was only 33 years since he was a 19 year old signaller in HMS Forester, fighting with E boats off the Normandy coast. How time flies!
40 years! I realised that when I bought my Dad a pint in the Sergeants Mess a few days before my demob, it was only 33 years since he was a 19 year old signaller in HMS Forester, fighting with E boats off the Normandy coast. How time flies!
Just reading the excellent new book on goose green. The opening chapter is an interesting perspective on the press huddle around mowgli and his bullet hole.
apparently the press where so engaged in photos and interviews none looked back as the first sas patrol camp up on the aircraft lift and boarded the sea king for insertion.
the book is only 99p on Amazon kindle download at the moment too
apparently the press where so engaged in photos and interviews none looked back as the first sas patrol camp up on the aircraft lift and boarded the sea king for insertion.
the book is only 99p on Amazon kindle download at the moment too
Mog, belated thanks for your reply. 'One snag was that SHAR training for ground attack was cursory during conversion and CBUs were not even in the RN inventory,'
Got me thinking, were the custard bombs, that were delivered in response to your suggestion, confined to Hermes? In their absence would you have been expected to have used 2-inch against parked aircraft etc.
? I understand 1(F) used both CBUs and 2-inch against troop poditions?
Also, I wonder if 'you know who' had CBUs on his wish list when he was flying the relevant desk. Funding them is a different question, one tends to forget how tight things were, as some one put it to me he was thinking aalong the lines of 'soon we'll be alongside and the pipe will be, for exercise the ship is now at sea'. 'No way, anti-armour weapon - not a Navy role.'
Got me thinking, were the custard bombs, that were delivered in response to your suggestion, confined to Hermes? In their absence would you have been expected to have used 2-inch against parked aircraft etc.
? I understand 1(F) used both CBUs and 2-inch against troop poditions?Also, I wonder if 'you know who' had CBUs on his wish list when he was flying the relevant desk. Funding them is a different question, one tends to forget how tight things were, as some one put it to me he was thinking aalong the lines of 'soon we'll be alongside and the pipe will be, for exercise the ship is now at sea'. 'No way, anti-armour weapon - not a Navy role.'
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by SLXOwft
Mog, belated thanks for your reply. 'One snag was that SHAR training for ground attack was cursory during conversion and CBUs were not even in the RN inventory,'
Got me thinking, were the custard bombs, that were delivered in response to your suggestion, confined to Hermes? In their absence would you have been expected to have used 2-inch against parked aircraft etc.? I understand 1(F) used both CBUs and 2-inch against troop poditions?
Also, I wonder if 'you know who' had CBUs on his wish list when he was flying the relevant desk. Funding them is a different question, one tends to forget how tight things were, as some one put it to me he was thinking aalong the lines of 'soon we'll be alongside and the pipe will be, for exercise the ship is now at sea'. 'No way, anti-armour weapon - not a Navy role.'
Got me thinking, were the custard bombs, that were delivered in response to your suggestion, confined to Hermes? In their absence would you have been expected to have used 2-inch against parked aircraft etc.
? I understand 1(F) used both CBUs and 2-inch against troop poditions?Also, I wonder if 'you know who' had CBUs on his wish list when he was flying the relevant desk. Funding them is a different question, one tends to forget how tight things were, as some one put it to me he was thinking aalong the lines of 'soon we'll be alongside and the pipe will be, for exercise the ship is now at sea'. 'No way, anti-armour weapon - not a Navy role.'
The RN had never even heard of BL755 until I mentioned it to the admiral’s aviation advisor in the bar, on the night we sailed. To be fair, they arrived by Chinook the following day!
Mog
Originally Posted by Ddraig Goch
What's the name of the book Dagenham please!
one of the best books I have read for a long time
Originally Posted by Mogwi
Hail Gums!
Yes, 20mm HE from a Rheinmetall 202 firing 40 rounds a second. Hate to think where the other 120 odd rounds went! Didn’t half make a bang. Fortunately he didn’t quite get the lead right and hit the only bit of the aircraft that was not engine, fuel tank or pink bits.
Mog
Yes, 20mm HE from a Rheinmetall 202 firing 40 rounds a second. Hate to think where the other 120 odd rounds went! Didn’t half make a bang. Fortunately he didn’t quite get the lead right and hit the only bit of the aircraft that was not engine, fuel tank or pink bits.
Mog
I'm still in awe!
