Sweden Says Russian Planes that violated Swedish Airspace had nuclear weapons
Thread Starter
You folks are absolutely correct that it may have been a dummy of a perfect shape and size painted as a live tactical nuke. Still, I have no doubts that the swedes saw something that either is or was made to look exactly like a nuclear warhead.
That does not remove the fact that the Russians WANTED to make everyone else think that they are cruising happily in other nations airspace with a live nuke.
Whether the bugger was then live or not doesn't make much difference, message was delivered, and at this day and age one could make an uneducated guess that the message goes along the lines of "join NATO and you'll be receiving these".
To emphasize my point: undoubtedly the Swedes know what they saw, and they have to assume it is a live nuke.
To admit the possibility: it may have been a repainted dummy or it may have been a live one, that's something we'll never know for sure. The message was delivered and is the main thing anyway.
That does not remove the fact that the Russians WANTED to make everyone else think that they are cruising happily in other nations airspace with a live nuke.
Whether the bugger was then live or not doesn't make much difference, message was delivered, and at this day and age one could make an uneducated guess that the message goes along the lines of "join NATO and you'll be receiving these".
To emphasize my point: undoubtedly the Swedes know what they saw, and they have to assume it is a live nuke.
To admit the possibility: it may have been a repainted dummy or it may have been a live one, that's something we'll never know for sure. The message was delivered and is the main thing anyway.
Originally Posted by just another jocky
I don't think a paint scheme can confirm anything other than someone has painted something the colour they wanted to.
Supposing that someone chose to paint an inert training device to look like a live weapon rather than it actually being a live weapon?
Either way - it's still a pretty big "[email protected]£& You" to the Swedes.
Originally Posted by OvertHawk
Supposing that someone chose to paint an inert training device to look like a live weapon rather than it actually being a live weapon?
Either way - it's still a pretty big "[email protected]£& You" to the Swedes.
Either way - it's still a pretty big "[email protected]£& You" to the Swedes.
And if they were real nukes and Sweden had adopted the Turkish method of shooting down Russian jets that enter its airspace, what then?
Last edited by Timmy Tomkins; 31st Mar 2022 at 09:58.
Probably coincidence, but just after the news came out, the Prime Minister said she wouldn’t rule out joining NATO. (A somewhat big deal, because her party’s longstanding position has been to rule it out.)
Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins
And if they were real nukes and Sweden had adopted the Turkish method of shooting down Russian jets that enter its airspace, what then?
Originally Posted by mickjoebill
The USA use a helicopter to check radiation levels around locations where mass gatherings are planned. Perhaps someone can speak to the detection range of portable detection equioment?
Mjb
Mjb
Originally Posted by Asturias56
V Interesting BEAMR but the main obvious difference on the WE177 illustration is the paint job - and that could be changed for all sorts of reasons
Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst
That is for “dirty” bombs or other radiological material. Nuclear weapons fissile material in encased inside the weapon and there would be no signature to detect. Otherwise those poor guys attaching the bombs would have a very short career, after the radiation exposure.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
It feels like Russia wants Sweden to join NATO for some reason.
Originally Posted by superplum
Not really. For all NATO wpns of either variety (Conv or Non-Conv), all are required to conform to NATO colour standards - these would not be changed at local level.
Whatever though, as others have said, it’s still a pretty provocative thing to do.
Doing things like painting training rounds to look like nukes is a stupid thing to start
you just don't know what the reaction might be - they'd look a bit silly if the Swedes had some sort of dirty bomb they fired off in a panic at St Petersburg for example
you just don't know what the reaction might be - they'd look a bit silly if the Swedes had some sort of dirty bomb they fired off in a panic at St Petersburg for example
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Google translate from a news article published today. Looks more like Russian propaganda.
"Several defense experts doubt the information that two Russian planes that violated Swedish airspace were equipped with nuclear weapons.
- My assessment of the pictures is that the plane looks completely unarmed, says Andreas Hörnedal, expert at FOI.
Several media reported on Wednesday that two of the four Russian planes that violated Swedish airspace in early March were armed with nuclear weapons. The information originally came from TV4 Nyheterna, which referred to "sources".
The information has already been toned down by the Armed Forces Air Force Commander.
- Had we seen an increased threat to Sweden linked to this incident or other events, we would have informed about it, said Air Force Chief Carl-Johan Edström to TT.
"Speak against"
Andreas Hörnedal is a research leader and expert on airborne weapons at the Swedish Defense Research Agency (FOI).
- The news itself has a very unclear source. My assessment of the pictures that the Armed Forces posted, which in itself was quite low-resolution, was that the plane looked completely unarmed, and that applies to all the plan, he says.
Defense debater Johan Wiktorin also questions the information.
- How they flew and maneuvered speaks against a behavior that you should have with such a load, he says.
Impact surgery?
It was early alleged that the two attack planes had been equipped with Kh-32 nuclear missiles. But it is a robot that is very large, weighs about 5.5 tons and is carried on another aircraft (a strategic bomber of the type TU 22M3), according to Andreas Hörnedal.
During the Swedish Armed Forces' weekly press conference, Daniel Olsson, Deputy Head of the Military Intelligence and Security Service (Must), was asked about TV4 Nyheter's information.
Daniel Olsson said that MUST does not comment on other countries' armaments so that it could reveal Sweden's ability to investigate foreign planes.
- We do not go into armaments. But what I can say is that the violation in no way changes the threat against Sweden. We see no increased threat. In general, it is important to be aware that information on nuclear weapons can be used for psychological influence. It's a way to mark and intimidate when it comes to information about nuclear weapons. It is very important to be aware of that and be very critical of sources, said Daniel Olsson."
"Several defense experts doubt the information that two Russian planes that violated Swedish airspace were equipped with nuclear weapons.
- My assessment of the pictures is that the plane looks completely unarmed, says Andreas Hörnedal, expert at FOI.
Several media reported on Wednesday that two of the four Russian planes that violated Swedish airspace in early March were armed with nuclear weapons. The information originally came from TV4 Nyheterna, which referred to "sources".
The information has already been toned down by the Armed Forces Air Force Commander.
- Had we seen an increased threat to Sweden linked to this incident or other events, we would have informed about it, said Air Force Chief Carl-Johan Edström to TT.
"Speak against"
Andreas Hörnedal is a research leader and expert on airborne weapons at the Swedish Defense Research Agency (FOI).
- The news itself has a very unclear source. My assessment of the pictures that the Armed Forces posted, which in itself was quite low-resolution, was that the plane looked completely unarmed, and that applies to all the plan, he says.
Defense debater Johan Wiktorin also questions the information.
- How they flew and maneuvered speaks against a behavior that you should have with such a load, he says.
Impact surgery?
It was early alleged that the two attack planes had been equipped with Kh-32 nuclear missiles. But it is a robot that is very large, weighs about 5.5 tons and is carried on another aircraft (a strategic bomber of the type TU 22M3), according to Andreas Hörnedal.
During the Swedish Armed Forces' weekly press conference, Daniel Olsson, Deputy Head of the Military Intelligence and Security Service (Must), was asked about TV4 Nyheter's information.
Daniel Olsson said that MUST does not comment on other countries' armaments so that it could reveal Sweden's ability to investigate foreign planes.
- We do not go into armaments. But what I can say is that the violation in no way changes the threat against Sweden. We see no increased threat. In general, it is important to be aware that information on nuclear weapons can be used for psychological influence. It's a way to mark and intimidate when it comes to information about nuclear weapons. It is very important to be aware of that and be very critical of sources, said Daniel Olsson."
Thread Starter
This one has two options, either it is russian propaganda or swedish smoke and mirrors: One entity leaks info while officially no one comments on it.
However, when theres smoke there usually is fire, too. I doubt very much that those long distance photos are the only pictures, the Swedish AF surely has much better pictures that has not been released.
However, when theres smoke there usually is fire, too. I doubt very much that those long distance photos are the only pictures, the Swedish AF surely has much better pictures that has not been released.
Originally Posted by Beamr
You folks are absolutely correct that it may have been a dummy of a perfect shape and size painted as a live tactical nuke. Still, I have no doubts that the swedes saw something that either is or was made to look exactly like a nuclear warhead.
That does not remove the fact that the Russians WANTED to make everyone else think that they are cruising happily in other nations airspace with a live nuke.
Whether the bugger was then live or not doesn't make much difference, message was delivered, and at this day and age one could make an uneducated guess that the message goes along the lines of "join NATO and you'll be receiving these".
To emphasize my point: undoubtedly the Swedes know what they saw, and they have to assume it is a live nuke.
To admit the possibility: it may have been a repainted dummy or it may have been a live one, that's something we'll never know for sure. The message was delivered and is the main thing anyway.
That does not remove the fact that the Russians WANTED to make everyone else think that they are cruising happily in other nations airspace with a live nuke.
Whether the bugger was then live or not doesn't make much difference, message was delivered, and at this day and age one could make an uneducated guess that the message goes along the lines of "join NATO and you'll be receiving these".
To emphasize my point: undoubtedly the Swedes know what they saw, and they have to assume it is a live nuke.
To admit the possibility: it may have been a repainted dummy or it may have been a live one, that's something we'll never know for sure. The message was delivered and is the main thing anyway.
Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst
That is for “dirty” bombs or other radiological material. Nuclear weapons fissile material in encased inside the weapon and there would be no signature to detect. Otherwise those poor guys attaching the bombs would have a very short career, after the radiation exposure.
However, in the above scenarios the distances involved between the RDE detector and the potential radiation source are on the order of feet. In the Swedish incident, the distances likely would have been too great (and too brief) for any significant detection above background radiation levels.
Regarding the comment about radiation exposure from nuclear weapons, all of the workers involved in this type of work (at least in the U.S.) are trained radiation workers that carry personal dosimetry, allowing their exposure to be managed using the standard time, distance, and shielding principles.
I agree with the comments that Russia intended this to be a provocative incident but carrying an actual nuclear warhead was not necessary to carry out the provocation.
If I'd be Sweden I'd to exactly what they do. Leave it blurry to not come under any outside pressure whatever gets thrown at them. They alone will decide what they want whenever they want.
