Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

OpSec issues from Ukraine War

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

OpSec issues from Ukraine War

Old 19th Mar 2022, 16:20
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Erewhon
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hell's Bells, I haven't logged in for a year and I'm glad to see that Common Sense continues NOT to be and the same old arguments are being recycled.

As an ex RAF Station Int Officer I can confirm ANY information is of use, as has been said. But of course the greatest enemy to UK generally comes from within and from people with an agenda that is either utterly naive or purposely damaging - Diane Abbott for example and Jewemy.
Brian W May is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 16:32
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We’re not propagating anything that isn’t ‘out there’ already.
We’re posting links and quotes from PUBLIC sources for crying out loud. A link to a website article by definition means it’s public.
The idea that PPRuNe would somehow hold secret information that the enemy doesn’t know yet is laughable.
Yes, it’s all about dopamine release and feeling the need to have your knowledge acknowledge and egotistical reasons.
Someone may ask a question here and within 3 posts without fail someone switches it to why that did and what they learned and what they proclaim to know and pretend to be.
B2N2 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 16:48
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grid ref confused
Age: 62
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
B2N2, you have missed the point spectacularly and are beyond redemption. There is nothing wrong with posting the links. There is no 'secret' info on PPRuNe. What is wrong is the 'professional' analysis of those links, confirming or denying that information, where the info is right or wrong, where the tactics used are right or wrong. Pointing out info in the public domain is one thing. Turning it into intelligence by giving it credence is another. Look at BEAMR's post at post 60, where he aptly illustrates the intelligence the west got from OS, confirmation of the presence of enemy kit and forces. If we do it, don't you think the opposition does it as well? Thoughtless 'discussions' on PPRuNe are not laughable, they can dangerous.

Last edited by cynicalint; 19th Mar 2022 at 17:01.
cynicalint is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 17:24
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: yyz
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"I am also very surprised about the open admission that Russian senior commanders are being located and targeted through their use of insecure comms, including civilian mobile phones"

Well considering the one of the first documented uses of hitting someone using their mobile phone was the Russians hitting a Taleban leader in Afghanistan 30 years ago (and THAT took some planning in those far off days) I don't think it's much of a top secret tactic
I had a friend in the forces, I asked if he was worried about being deployed? "Nope, I kill way more sitting at a desk!". " I have a fire mission @grid coordinates xxx,yyy I have a cell phone with imei #...... Need impact at crossroads such at time abcd.ef fire 12 rds HE does for effect. "
rigpiggy is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 17:31
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oh do get a grip for gawd sake!

OPSEC? BEADWINDOW? Security breaches?

If you seriously consider for one split second that some Russian intelligence types, poring over their numerous satellite images, long range IR, night vision and recce images, ELINT, HUMINT and numerous other info sources, will cast all that aside with the cry "hold on, ignore all that! Some ex Vulcan jockey on PPRuNe thinks that we might be wrong in some of what we are doing!" then you are SO deluded that it is embarrassing!

As for the rest, all that is posted here is a repost of stuff already posted elsewhere and often by the Ukranians or UK MoD themselves. You are massively overstating your importance or significance if you think that any of this is any kind of security breach.

я українецьya ukrayinetsʹ


pr00ne is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 17:47
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North of the M4
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
[QUOTE=Brian W May;11202384

As an ex RAF Station Int Officer I can confirm ANY information is of use, as has been said. But of course the greatest enemy to UK generally comes from within and from people with an agenda that is either utterly naive or purposely damaging - Diane Abbott for example and Jewemy.[/QUOTE]

Or perhaps even more damaging, Mr Putin's favourite asset - Bowis and his friend Lordsky.

Personally, I am bored with FR 24 and can't wait for the launch of Submarine Sonar 24.
biddedout is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 18:14
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grid ref confused
Age: 62
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pr00ne, where do you think that some Russian intelligence types, poring over their numerous satellite images, long range IR, night vision and recce images, ELINT, HUMINT and numerous other info sources get their cues on WHERE to focus those assets?. Generally from press and social media sites.
cynicalint is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 18:36
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Here and there.
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pr00ne, you are missing the point completely.

If you are mil or ex mil you should be ashamed of your naivety.

As i have said before. It is NOT what is open source that is the problem. It is the act of COMPILING it into a very useful bit of intel and the ADDITIONAL information that sits with it.

For an Intel Officer to support these concerns speaks volumes of the seriousness of the subject that people are dismissing as "laughable" .
SATCOS WHIPPING BOY is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 18:43
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 4,654
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Has anyone read the millions of words being produced each day analysing what is going on from everyone from the Prime Minister to people on here?

It's a different world today from 30-40 years ago. The problem isn't shortage of information - it's information overload. And honestly cynic - do you REALLY believe the Russians are basing their coverage on Social media - maybe they aren't getting any messages from their own guys in the front line I guess.

Asturias56 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 19:33
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Has anyone read the millions of words being produced each day analysing what is going on from everyone from the Prime Minister to people on here?

It's a different world today from 30-40 years ago. The problem isn't shortage of information - it's information overload. And honestly cynic - do you REALLY believe the Russians are basing their coverage on Social media - maybe they aren't getting any messages from their own guys in the front line I guess.
Think that even understates the problem, there is so much data getting thrown around that filtering out any useful bits is a massive problem, one that is probably not worth the effort needed to achieve results.
Also note that the social media are frequently used to disseminate misleading information, which further complicates the task.

Frankly, looking back on the record of efforts to keep military secrets, the actual performance seems very unimpressive, from the days of the A bomb, where an undiscovered source gave the Soviets full details of the Hanford reactors that produced the plutonium for Nagasaki to the spy satellites or the US Navy anti sub efforts, things always were leaked. That suggests that secrecy is theater in most cases and probably not worth the cost.
etudiant is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 19:53
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
Pr00ne, where do you think that some Russian intelligence types, poring over their numerous satellite images, long range IR, night vision and recce images, ELINT, HUMINT and numerous other info sources get their cues on WHERE to focus those assets?. Generally from press and social media sites.
Oh don't be ridiculous!
pr00ne is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 19:57
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
Pr00ne, you are missing the point completely.

If you are mil or ex mil you should be ashamed of your naivety.

As i have said before. It is NOT what is open source that is the problem. It is the act of COMPILING it into a very useful bit of intel and the ADDITIONAL information that sits with it.

For an Intel Officer to support these concerns speaks volumes of the seriousness of the subject that people are dismissing as "laughable" .
I am ex mil and I am in no way naive!

This is 2022 not 1934.

How on earth does all of this detailed compiling of info on social media aid, or even in any way affect, a Russian soldier in a shell hole in Ukraine?

Even back in my day I was firmly of the opinion that all Opsec and beadwindow was to prevent embarrassment of senior officers and anything that could possibly be deemed negative toward the Royal Family.

pr00ne is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:07
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grid ref confused
Age: 62
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Even back in my day I was firmly of the opinion that all Opsec and beadwindow was to prevent embarrassment of senior officers and anything that could possibly be deemed negative toward the Royal Family.
Oh dear, hoist by one's own petard, or convicted from your own mouth. This is one of the most ignorant, naïve and unpleasant comments I have heard from a Commissioned Officer, who once swore loyalty to the crown and those officers placed above him. Pr00ne, you do yourself no favours.
cynicalint is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:16
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grid ref confused
Age: 62
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Oh don't be ridiculous!
So please explain where YOU think the cues come from?
cynicalint is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:30
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
So please explain where YOU think the cues come from?
Seriously? You really think that the "clues" come from PPRuNe? Get real!
pr00ne is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:32
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
Oh dear, hoist by one's own petard, or convicted from your own mouth. This is one of the most ignorant, naïve and unpleasant comments I have heard from a Commissioned Officer, who once swore loyalty to the crown and those officers placed above him. Pr00ne, you do yourself no favours.
It is a comment from an EX Commissioned officer who has long been a proud Republican and after over 30 years experience as a Barrister...

pr00ne is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:35
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grid ref confused
Age: 62
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Seriously? You really think that the "clues" come from PPRuNe? Get real!
Certainly not! Open source - and it's cues, not clues.
cynicalint is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:37
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
Certainly not! Open source - and it's cues, not clues.
You are still living in cloud cuckoo land despite it being clue or cue!
pr00ne is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:48
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Grid ref confused
Age: 62
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
It is a comment from an EX Commissioned officer who has long been a proud Republican and after over 30 years experience as a Barrister...
Ex-officer, proud republican and 30 year barrister are all respectable achievements. However, these qualities do not support your opinion of Opsec, which is at the most basic level WRONG!
cynicalint is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2022, 20:51
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 1,351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
Oh dear, hoist by one's own petard, or convicted from your own mouth. This is one of the most ignorant, naïve and unpleasant comments I have heard from a Commissioned Officer, who once swore loyalty to the crown and those officers placed above him. Pr00ne, you do yourself no favours.
Cynicalint, please play the topic, not the man.
Pr00ne thinks that the various security shibboleths are useless procedures, does he have a valid point?
etudiant is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.