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OpSec issues from Ukraine War

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OpSec issues from Ukraine War

Old 19th Mar 2022, 10:08
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Yemen is a recent bloody war with not much coverage for comparison.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 10:54
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
As somebody has already said - why don't you idiot spotters stop posting information of value to a hostile regime?
Because all you have to do is look on ADSB, and other radar trackers freely available on the net and you can see where lots of the military aircraft are. All the strategic recce assets are a prime example. On any day of the week I can see wher the RC135s are, Sweden's Gulfstream and Saab, Several AWACS, loads of tankers and the B52s operating out of Fairford. Can't see any of the fighters or other stuff that the tankers are there for though. I would suggest that NATO want the Russians to know they're there.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 11:02
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Originally Posted by radiosutch View Post
As an interesting aside, when the war started FR24 showed NATO EWACS on patrol. Since last week they don't show up. Either they are not flying, (they are) or transponders turned off or FR24 have blocked them? ( still on other tracking sites therefore FR24 must have blocked them)
Still show up on Global ADSB.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 11:19
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With regards to ADSB, we only see what they want us to see. Even the Russkies left theirs on a couple of days ago when they practiced their Doomsday escape procedure.

Agreed, "B-52 engines running" might be a bit too much info, but five minutes later they are there for everyone to see anyway.

I do believe the people at the Home Office would be onto these groups like a shot if it was becoming a problem. Hell, they could probably black out social media for a few hours if they needed too.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 11:42
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Part of the success of social media (pprune included) is the natural and frequently unbridled need to show off, not just what we look like, what we ate and where we have been but also what we know (and by way of bragging - showing that 'I knew this before you' ). None of this is important except in an egocentric way. It may be old fashioned but perhaps self restraint and modesty should be a better better way of comporting ourselves.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 12:01
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
The problem is not FR24. As has been pointed out, sometimes the aircraft want to be seen, and sometimes they don't.

The problem is with the many "enthusiast" groups sharing and broadcasting additional information.

Ie " just seen 3 typhoons leave xyz, " or " i see the b52s are starting up". I am sure they would post up the pilots name and address if they thought it would garner a few extra FB likes.

If you don't understand that every little additional snippet "could" be useful to someone somewhere, then you need to have a rethink.
Absolutely, it is well known that the aggregation of 'low level' information can provide more useful information than one individual piece of such information.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 12:01
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One occasion when I do believe this story in the Daily Mail.reporting that Russia is using special forces' phones to target their locations in Ukraine. Alleges that such locations are targetted as soon as they 'clock in' to Ukraine's network which has been hacked ...
Russia has been using phone data captured by its spies operating in the UK to target British former special forces teams in Ukraine.

The Kremlin has compiled a database of mobile phone numbers in a top secret operation – and this information is being used to decide where to launch missile attacks.

The numbers and accompanying personal data were gathered by spies near some of the UK's most sensitive military sites, including the headquarters of the Special Boat Service (SBS) and Special Air Service (SAS). GRU officers – Russia's equivalent of MI6 – used the latest scanning technology to detect the smartphones, such as iPhones, which soldiers typically turn on after leaving their bases.
The moment a mobile phone joins a local network – known as 'the handshake' – their numbers are revealed to the Russian agents.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 12:13
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"I am also very surprised about the open admission that Russian senior commanders are being located and targeted through their use of insecure comms, including civilian mobile phones"

Well considering the one of the first documented uses of hitting someone using their mobile phone was the Russians hitting a Taleban leader in Afghanistan 30 years ago (and THAT took some planning in those far off days) I don't think it's much of a top secret tactic

Well obviously it's not a top secret tactic, but equally obviously the Russians have been sloppy and paid the price. Why remind them?
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 12:20
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Originally Posted by Geriaviator View Post
One occasion when I do believe this story in the Daily Mail.reporting that Russia is using special forces' phones to target their locations in Ukraine. Alleges that such locations are targetted as soon as they 'clock in' to Ukraine's network which has been hacked ...
Really , for a start its the Daily mail , for a second they don't quote any sources. For a third , even if there were any Brit SOF in Ukraine , do you for a moment think their operational procedures include carrying their UK domestic cellphones around - lol!
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 14:03
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Originally Posted by Usertim View Post
do you for a moment think their operational procedures include carrying their UK domestic cellphones around - lol!
Well not now we've left the EU, as that would incur Roaming Charges!


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Old 19th Mar 2022, 14:09
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1. So no posting of (freely available) “sensitive” information on this Forum…gotcha, we’ll leave that to the rest of the world.
2. The thought that PPRuNe would be the first and favorite source of open Intel to our enemy is frankly a little laughable.
3. Despite my dislike of social media ( Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook and the likes) it is tremendously helping the Ukrainians at this point.

This is an information war and the Ukrainians are playing it masterfully.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 14:23
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Justin Bronk from RUSI makes some interesting comment during an interview with Ward Carrol (YouTube) about the way that the Ukrainians are dominating the information warfare arena. Worth a watch. Erudite young fella.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 15:13
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Originally Posted by Doctor Cruces View Post
Because all you have to do is look on ADSB, and other radar trackers freely available on the net and you can see where lots of the military aircraft are. All the strategic recce assets are a prime example. On any day of the week I can see wher the RC135s are, Sweden's Gulfstream and Saab, Several AWACS, loads of tankers and the B52s operating out of Fairford. Can't see any of the fighters or other stuff that the tankers are there for though. I would suggest that NATO want the Russians to know they're there.
Rewind and take a look at the post in the other thread about the voyager. Post #3424 I believe it was.

Voyager flying northwest up past Italy. - seen on FR24 (= open source)
Message accompanying said post - "with FGR4" ( Not showing on FR24 therefore additional useful info to an enemy)
Message accompanying said post - "routing Akrotiri to Romainia" . OK you can see where the tanker left, burt nothing in open source says where it is going. Therefore additional useful info to an enemy).
It is the additional info that should remain unpublished.

As for BEADWINDOW, that phrase makes me laugh all it does is highlight that something sensitive has been said and would make someone listening-in look closer at what had been discussed.


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Old 19th Mar 2022, 15:21
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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B2N2 , 19th Mar 2022 13:09
1. So no posting of (freely available) “sensitive” information on this Forum…gotcha, we’ll leave that to the rest of the world.
2. The thought that PPRuNe would be the first and favorite source of open Intel to our enemy is frankly a little laughable.
3. Despite my dislike of social media ( Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook and the likes) it is tremendously helping the Ukrainians at this point
1. Good point. But ask yourself why would you want to repeat what is already available elsewhere, is it just a form of self gratification or worse, gossip?
2. What makes you think that this is first and favourite? It is probably just a part of a pattern building enterprise.
3. PPRuNe is itself social media.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 15:28
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A USAF tanker was in his frequent orbit south of Ukraine last night when two F-18s were visible close to him. First time I have seen the distinctive triangle blips, can't believe their display was unintentional.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 16:17
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During WW2 a junketing Congressman returned from the Pacific and crowed that US submarines were experiencing low losses because the Japanese were setting their Depth Charges too shallow. Newspapers published this and the Japanese changed their tactics. US submarine losses rose.

Remember the initial landings of US troops in Somalia? They were blinded by the camera lights of the horde of News Crews on the beach?

If D-Day happened today the media would post the time, date and place citing the “Public’s Right to Know” while waving a copy of the First Amendment. Anything for a scoop.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 16:29
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Umberto Eco said it best: “Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community. Then they were quickly silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots.”


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Old 19th Mar 2022, 16:51
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B2N2 , 19th Mar 2022 13:09
1. So no posting of (freely available) “sensitive” information on this Forum…gotcha, we’ll leave that to the rest of the world.]
The danger with that attitude is that the information is given veracity and credence by being used to support an argument by those who are assumed to be SMEs.. Likewise, trying to spread 'misinformation' may well impinge, unintentionally, on other approaches being made.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 17:04
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Originally Posted by B2N2 View Post
2. The thought that PPRuNe would be the first and favorite source of open Intel to our enemy is frankly a little laughable.
3. Despite my dislike of social media ( Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook and the likes) it is tremendously helping the Ukrainians at this point.
This is an information war and the Ukrainians are playing it masterfully.
2. The main threat to security is the silly attitude that no threat exists. The press constantly monitor and use PPRuNe as a source, why not HIS?
3. If the Ukrainians are using social media masterfully, why do you think the Russians are also not using it for intelligence.
If it is an information war, all sources are important - BOTH sides can use OS to gain intelligence they might not otherwise have access to.
Just think before posting.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 17:18
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It works the other way round, too. Weeks prior to the Russian attack we saw a multitude of videos from Russia and Belarus, trains moving equipment from far east as an example. Those videos revealed missiles in open top carts, T72's of the first build, ZIL trucks, they showed the lack of modern equipment. We saw videos of Alligators and hinds moving closer to Ukrainian borders. The social media actually gave a pretty good idea what is being gathered against Ukraine. And those are the goods that has been seen on the field. Additionally we've seen people analyze the goods Russians have been hauling towards Ukraine throughout the war, a certain video showing airborne armor being moved by train to Belarus comes to mind.
All this has been discussed in this forum in lengthy threads. Has this discussion been giving out any new insight to the authorities in Ukraine? Has it been of use to the western intelligence? I very much doubt it, I reckon they knew it before we did.

And to make it absolutely clear, I am very much pro OpSec. But would the discussion on PPRuNe about info freely available on internet really fit in that bill...
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