Military ethos and Diversity?

[Finningley Boy]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

Here we go again… you do not know what I was involved in or my full career, ahh clasps, got one of those and in rank I believe the medal precedes those of the gulf wars etc, but this thread is not about that, so take a chill pill and get back on subject please. Different times different conflicts. So please if you want to take pops at me please do it by all means in PM’s, but stop doing it and ruining threads, it does not become you.

I have yet to see a nasty person on here… the odd one needs help, but nasty, no.

I cannot fathom your comment on my politics, I have said in this thread each to their own and they should have freedom of life choices to live their lives as they choose as equals without any stigma or bigotry, God made us all equal, men and women are the ones that screwed that one up.

​​​​​​…

If I may say further, and to clarify, the effort being made by the service chiefs is to a laudable aim, but by lecturing and enforcing what to and not to show enthusiasm for, is going about it the wrong way. They should stick to the simple line, you're all one team regardless of your personal life, interests, etc and should and will work together as one professional team. But that doesn't appear to be the approach. Like political pressure groups, they are dictating personal feelings and causing division in the process, the very opposite of their aims. The ads that NutLoose posted demonstrate the problem western nations have reconciling the military image with the societies they serve. The American and British ads aren't designed to recruit for the armed forces, or the army in particular. Their emphasis on promotion of the LGBTQ wouldn't be out of place if that was the point, but in a military recruitment drive it drowns out the whole reason for recruiting to the armed forces.

Cat Techie and Scamp, I bow to your service in the face of the enemy, and that of anyone else, regardless of what they do to alleviate the boredom in their own free time. But what do you think the Greatest Generation would make of this? I wouldn't want to generalize, but those who fought in the Second World War might, in some cases, take a more old fashioned view. They oversaw and enforced the rules barring Homosexuality after all. But I will give you both 10 out of 10 for your command of in house jargon! ,

FB

[charliegolf]

But what do you think the Greatest Generation would make of this?

They would think it was a crime (it was) like theft or fraud or ABH; and therefore had no place in the service, cos 'right-minded' people didn't do those things.

There is no link to 'them' and 'this'.

CG

[Finningley Boy]

Originally Posted by charliegolf

They would think it was a crime (it was) like theft or fraud or ABH; and therefore had no place in the service, cos 'right-minded' people didn't do those things.

There is no link to 'them' and 'this'.

CG

It was the same throughout my time in the RAF, I've accepted the change, but today's service chiefs are losing all perspective in their quest for a more enlightened approach, again, not that the more enlightened approach is wrong. When I joined, all the service chiefs were WW2 veterans, to me they aren't outside of living memory, and certainly not their immediate predecessors, so there is a link. But I am alluding also to the comments made by Scamp and Cat Techie which suggest it is 'their generation which proved themselves in the face of fire, perhaps its the bungling of latter day politicians that put them in harm's way alongside a fistful of defence cuts? Therefore, is their moral opinion supposed to trump all? As I've said, it is all about perspective and proportion. However, I will say one thing and Cat Techie would certainly appreciate this having joined in 1984, Scamp as well, the years of RAF service from the end of National Service (I'm partially assuming as I didn't join until 1977) all the way through to the early 1990s, were the very best. We had the Cold War to thank for that and the substantial military balance between East and West. That has long been lost and, as I alluded, is largely responsible for all the disastrous conflicts across the Middle East we've had recently, for which, for the record, I entirely blame the West's Politicians, namely, Bush Jnr, Blair and Biden, these three in particular.

FB Off to the Bunker a second time

[trim it out]

Having had a sit down and read of the OpO I think it could be a productive day, providing there's a decent buy in (funnily enough most of the push back I've seen has been from 40+ year old WOs, fear of being called out? ).

Slightly frustrating that so much effort has gone into IT the last couple of years but you have to access the material on a personal device so that MODNET doesn't get overloaded. Not really a surprise though, JPA has been L/R for the last two weeks with intermittent access too

[Blue_Circle]

Originally Posted by Tengah Type

Surely we should be trying to foster Cohesion, Tolerance and Teamwork, NOT allowing a new and different approach to alienate people!!.

That is precisely what OP Teamwork is aimed at. Those who've posted previously with their fear of the latter are either out of touch or stirring the pot for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by trim it out

Having had a sit down and read of the OpO I think it could be a productive day, providing there's a decent buy in (funnily enough most of the push back I've seen has been from 40+ year old WOs, fear of being called out? ).

I've been voluntold to led a discussion group at my establishment, and I'm quite looking forward to hearing what people have to say. I think we're a pretty welcoming and amenable bunch but we (some of our old(er) farts, self included) definitely have room for improvement.

[trim it out]

Originally Posted by Blue_Circle

I think we're a pretty welcoming and amenable bunch but we (some of our old(er) farts, self included) definitely have room for improvement.

See if you can drop "metathesiophobia" into conversation

[NutLoose]

Originally Posted by Blue_Circle

That is precisely what OP Teamwork is aimed at. Those who've posted previously with their fear of the latter are either out of touch or stirring the pot for whatever reason.

I posted the links to the adverts not against Diversity and unity etc, but just to highlight the diiferences in recruiting in different countries, ours seems slightly at odds with what you are trying to recruit folks for if that makes sense.

I don't fear change, change is good, that's what evolution is about, I was going to say it is irrational to fear metathesiophobia, but one didn't want to take the wind out of trim it outs sails

[finestkind]

Agree with comments that chiefs are that far out of touch that the inclusive requirement's are so that we no longer have a a military who's business is about what the military does but who's business is now about inclusion and mandatory training. Once one of our many PM's (OZ) stated "diversity is our strength". So divided we stand united we fall? Very much like most democratic government's. There is no such thing as a majority. The multitude of diverse fractions in a party means there is not one flag to rally around but a multitude. So how do you pick your cause were do you put your effort into. This appears to be mirrored in our military with no surprises considering the masters that have to be obeyed. I think most people would agree if you can do the job than I do not care "what you had for tea" (what your life preferences are). And when we do not have enough metathesiophobia than we have change for the sake of change in the appearance of moving forward. Wonderful account of how the military was rearranged and how this and that was changed all achieving nothing but the appearance of improving and wasting time with the reduction in capabilities. At the end it was signed Biggus Dickus (actually some Roman General 400BC?, which for the life of me I can no longer find) when I thought I was reading a current statement. Shows change has not changed since change began.

[Haraka]

Petronius Arbiter " We trained hard"
Committed suicide ( to avoid being assassinated).

[Barksdale Boy]

I don't understand why people need to use the word metathesiophobia when "fear of change" will do just as well - metathesis is an entireyl differetn mattre. Someone (Nat King Cole or perhaps Louis Armstrong - I can't quite remember) once said "I don't like two-dollar words: they stink the place up". It's hard to disagree.

[finestkind]

Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy

I don't understand why people need to use the word metathesiophobia when "fear of change" will do just as well - metathesis is an entireyl differetn mattre. Someone (Nat King Cole or perhaps Louis Armstrong - I can't quite remember) once said "I don't like two-dollar words: they stink the place up". It's hard to disagree.

Ohh BB. I agree when two-dollar words are used to show superiority and so called intelligence but when used as word play for fun it is a different matter.