F-35C Accident - USS Carl Vinson
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Salute! I gotta go with Spaz. Over on the F-35 forums one of the "boat" officers( think it was qual flights - Lincoln? been awhile) said that the plane was so accurate that they had to work on the spot on the deck that was repeatedly struck on touchdown. Good to see the seat working well on that beast and the Bee. Gums sends...
USN 'boat officer' quote as mentioned by 'gums': '35_aoa':
“FWIW, CVN 76/77/78 3 wire boat hook to ramp clearance is (IIRC) more like 10 feet. It is different enough that our brand new CAG paddles on cruise (who were both 4 wire boat guys) spent some time learning the "new" sight picture. For a month or two, they were calling low all the way for what were on-on passes. Then the airwing paddles collectively got into the debate of whether or not an "OK 1 wire" was a thing. Technically speaking, it is, based on the reduced hook to ramp clearance, but it took several months to convince CAG paddles of this. Old habits and sight pictures die hard I suppose.” http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic....t=hook#p353647
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One day the 'funni' txt transcript of the F-35C test pilot may be corrected as best as possible before I burst belly laffing but no mention of JPALS.
F-35C Delta Flight Path IDLC Tailhook 2015 Clemence Brief [uboob wideo]
Sep 28, 2015 Transcript
"On the boat I DLC and dfp who's familiar with this any magic carpet lectures out there people have been to okay if I said if you called the ball and you heard 40 knots 42 not starboard would it make you nervous well this control scheme makes it easy what I dlc is is integrated direct lift control what that means is the throttle just doesn't control the engine it controls the lift on the wing so you are directly affecting almost instantaneously your glide slope with throttle control you couple that with dfp which is delta flight path delta flight path is a flight control scheme that essentially flies a very precise glide slope for you when it's engaged and that's programmable so most of time our basic angle set at three and a half degrees so we have three and a half degrees set in there if you're low in this case you're basically hands off but if you do find yourself a little let's say a ball low then you pull back on the stick until you see a center ball and then you release and the ball should stay centered it has gust redirection for the berbil that it knows the winds because it has an AI NS system and it's always calculating the winds the only thing you need to do is plug in ship speed you plug in ship speed then it can do all the math for you I mean it hasn't aged the radar for crying out loud it should be able to figure this stuff out it's just basic trigonometry and so we've instituted this flight control mechanism in the airplane and we flew it on VT 1 and I'm telling you from the pilot's perspective if you've been in the cockpit for six or eight hours and you just want to get a board at night you're going to want delta flight path because it is very little work load you essentially just engage it with a nose wheel steering button and you're on that three and a half degree glide slope and you just make small deviations as required if you're 42 not starboard you might have to make three corrections you feel the airplane working airplanes are working a lot but you're doing very little except for starting at a center ball from the LSO perspective they've said it looks a lot like a mode one approach so it's very stabilized a very low workload for the pilot the Hudson Balaji is a little different because this is more applicable basically right here you have a glide slope reference line so the big joke with the Hornet but we'll guys kind of tell us all you do is put the thing on the thing and that's it well now you just put the thing on the thing on the thing and essentially you will be flying a precise three and a half glide slope to touch down whether or not the lens is even on so we're making it we know the geometry we know the winds we know the ship's speed if you put this budge slope reference line on the lens itself and the SRV V the ship reference the velocity vector on the ship then you will land with the summer ball know there are a lot of skeptics out here but it works and it's it's really nice."
F-35C Delta Flight Path IDLC Tailhook 2015 Clemence Brief [uboob wideo]
Sep 28, 2015 Transcript
"On the boat I DLC and dfp who's familiar with this any magic carpet lectures out there people have been to okay if I said if you called the ball and you heard 40 knots 42 not starboard would it make you nervous well this control scheme makes it easy what I dlc is is integrated direct lift control what that means is the throttle just doesn't control the engine it controls the lift on the wing so you are directly affecting almost instantaneously your glide slope with throttle control you couple that with dfp which is delta flight path delta flight path is a flight control scheme that essentially flies a very precise glide slope for you when it's engaged and that's programmable so most of time our basic angle set at three and a half degrees so we have three and a half degrees set in there if you're low in this case you're basically hands off but if you do find yourself a little let's say a ball low then you pull back on the stick until you see a center ball and then you release and the ball should stay centered it has gust redirection for the berbil that it knows the winds because it has an AI NS system and it's always calculating the winds the only thing you need to do is plug in ship speed you plug in ship speed then it can do all the math for you I mean it hasn't aged the radar for crying out loud it should be able to figure this stuff out it's just basic trigonometry and so we've instituted this flight control mechanism in the airplane and we flew it on VT 1 and I'm telling you from the pilot's perspective if you've been in the cockpit for six or eight hours and you just want to get a board at night you're going to want delta flight path because it is very little work load you essentially just engage it with a nose wheel steering button and you're on that three and a half degree glide slope and you just make small deviations as required if you're 42 not starboard you might have to make three corrections you feel the airplane working airplanes are working a lot but you're doing very little except for starting at a center ball from the LSO perspective they've said it looks a lot like a mode one approach so it's very stabilized a very low workload for the pilot the Hudson Balaji is a little different because this is more applicable basically right here you have a glide slope reference line so the big joke with the Hornet but we'll guys kind of tell us all you do is put the thing on the thing and that's it well now you just put the thing on the thing on the thing and essentially you will be flying a precise three and a half glide slope to touch down whether or not the lens is even on so we're making it we know the geometry we know the winds we know the ship's speed if you put this budge slope reference line on the lens itself and the SRV V the ship reference the velocity vector on the ship then you will land with the summer ball know there are a lot of skeptics out here but it works and it's it's really nice."
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Original thread starter post has been updated with some more detail but not much.
Crashed F-35C Fell off USS Carl Vinson Flight Deck into South China Sea [as one would expect of a wire break] 25 Jan 2022 Sam LaGrone https://news.usni.org/2022/01/25/cra...outh-china-sea
"...[U.S. 7th Fleet said early Tuesday in a statement] “An F-35C Lightning II assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 2, embarked aboard USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) had a landing mishap and impacted the flight deck and subsequently fell to the water during routine flight operations,” the statement said. “Impact to the flight deck was superficial and all equipment for flight operations is operational. Carrier Air Wing 2 and USS Carl Vinson have resumed routine flight operations in the South China Sea.”...
...The Monday crash during a landing on the carrier injured seven sailors, including the pilot who ejected from the F-35 and was recovered from the water by helicopter. “The pilot and two other sailors were [evacuated] to a medical treatment facility in Manila, Philippines, and four sailors were treated by on-board medical personnel,” reads the 7th Fleet statement. All the sailors are in stable condition.
“The U.S. Navy is making recovery operations arrangements for the F-35C aircraft involved in the mishap aboard USS Carl Vinson in the South China Sea,” U.S. 7th Fleet said in a late Tuesday statement following an earlier version of this post...."
Crashed F-35C Fell off USS Carl Vinson Flight Deck into South China Sea [as one would expect of a wire break] 25 Jan 2022 Sam LaGrone https://news.usni.org/2022/01/25/cra...outh-china-sea
"...[U.S. 7th Fleet said early Tuesday in a statement] “An F-35C Lightning II assigned to Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 2, embarked aboard USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) had a landing mishap and impacted the flight deck and subsequently fell to the water during routine flight operations,” the statement said. “Impact to the flight deck was superficial and all equipment for flight operations is operational. Carrier Air Wing 2 and USS Carl Vinson have resumed routine flight operations in the South China Sea.”...
...The Monday crash during a landing on the carrier injured seven sailors, including the pilot who ejected from the F-35 and was recovered from the water by helicopter. “The pilot and two other sailors were [evacuated] to a medical treatment facility in Manila, Philippines, and four sailors were treated by on-board medical personnel,” reads the 7th Fleet statement. All the sailors are in stable condition.
“The U.S. Navy is making recovery operations arrangements for the F-35C aircraft involved in the mishap aboard USS Carl Vinson in the South China Sea,” U.S. 7th Fleet said in a late Tuesday statement following an earlier version of this post...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 26th Jan 2022 at 02:09. Reason: txt edit
Salute!
I gotta go with Spaz.
Over on the F-35 forums one of the "boat" officers( think it was qual flights - Lincoln? been awhile) said that the plane was so accurate that they had to work on the spot on the deck that was repeatedly struck on touchdown.
Good to see the seat working well on that beast and the Bee.
Gums sends...
I gotta go with Spaz.
Over on the F-35 forums one of the "boat" officers( think it was qual flights - Lincoln? been awhile) said that the plane was so accurate that they had to work on the spot on the deck that was repeatedly struck on touchdown.
Good to see the seat working well on that beast and the Bee.
Gums sends...
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Recovery efforts underway
https://www.reuters.com/article/sout...-idUSL1N2U52XC
https://www.reuters.com/article/sout...-idUSL1N2U52XC
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy said on Tuesday it was making arrangements to recover an F-35C warplane that fell into the South China Sea after a landing mishap this week.
Seven U.S. military personnel were hurt in Monday’s accident on the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson and the pilot ejected, the Navy said.
“I can confirm the aircraft impacted the flight deck during landing and subsequently fell to the water,” said Lieutenant Nicholas Lingo, spokesperson for the U.S. 7th Fleet.
“The U.S. Navy is making recovery operations arrangements for the F-35C aircraft.”
Asked about an unsourced media report suggesting there were fears that the aircraft could fall into the hands of China, which claims most of the South China Sea, Lingo replied, referring to the People’s Republic of China: “We cannot speculate on what the PRC’s intentions are on this matter.”
It was the second crash involving an F-35, which is made by Lockheed Martin, and a carrier in just over two months.
An F-35 from Britain’s HMS Queen Elizabeth crashed into the Mediterranean Sea in November, though the pilot ejected and was safely returned to the ship. Britain’s Ministry of Defence said that aircraft was subsequently recovered.
Earlier this month, a South Korean F-35A fighter made an emergency landing during training.
In April 2019, a Japanese F-35 stealth fighter crashed in the Pacific Ocean close to northern Japan, killing the pilot.
The U.S. Navy said the pilot ejected safely in Monday’s incident, but was among the personnel hurt.
The Pentagon says two Carrier Strike Groups, ledby the Carl Vinson and USS Abraham Lincoln, began operations inthe South China Sea on Sunday. They entered the disputed sea for training as Taiwan reported a new Chinese air force incursion at the top of the waterway.
Lockheed Martin, which makes F-35 jets, reported better-than-expected quarterly profit on Tuesday.
Seven U.S. military personnel were hurt in Monday’s accident on the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson and the pilot ejected, the Navy said.
“I can confirm the aircraft impacted the flight deck during landing and subsequently fell to the water,” said Lieutenant Nicholas Lingo, spokesperson for the U.S. 7th Fleet.
“The U.S. Navy is making recovery operations arrangements for the F-35C aircraft.”
Asked about an unsourced media report suggesting there were fears that the aircraft could fall into the hands of China, which claims most of the South China Sea, Lingo replied, referring to the People’s Republic of China: “We cannot speculate on what the PRC’s intentions are on this matter.”
It was the second crash involving an F-35, which is made by Lockheed Martin, and a carrier in just over two months.
An F-35 from Britain’s HMS Queen Elizabeth crashed into the Mediterranean Sea in November, though the pilot ejected and was safely returned to the ship. Britain’s Ministry of Defence said that aircraft was subsequently recovered.
Earlier this month, a South Korean F-35A fighter made an emergency landing during training.
In April 2019, a Japanese F-35 stealth fighter crashed in the Pacific Ocean close to northern Japan, killing the pilot.
The U.S. Navy said the pilot ejected safely in Monday’s incident, but was among the personnel hurt.
The Pentagon says two Carrier Strike Groups, ledby the Carl Vinson and USS Abraham Lincoln, began operations inthe South China Sea on Sunday. They entered the disputed sea for training as Taiwan reported a new Chinese air force incursion at the top of the waterway.
Lockheed Martin, which makes F-35 jets, reported better-than-expected quarterly profit on Tuesday.
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Some slides from NAVAIR via SLDinfo about 'Magic Carpet' (now PLM Precision Landing Mode) and DFP for the F-35C with a graphic from it showing touchdown dispersion during testing onboard CVNs. A few pages were deleted (graphics) to get under the PDF file size limit here.
The Magic Carpet System - Enhanced Capabilities for the F-18 Carrier Force - includes Delta Flight Path DFP for F-35C
"...No connection to the ship/datalink..." https://www.slideshare.net/robbinlai...ystem-for-f18s
The Magic Carpet System - Enhanced Capabilities for the F-18 Carrier Force - includes Delta Flight Path DFP for F-35C
"...No connection to the ship/datalink..." https://www.slideshare.net/robbinlai...ystem-for-f18s
Spaz, great post and info. Have downloaded the pdf.
In my lack of knowledge, do the green dots mean Delta/Path's are good?
It just looks like to me that the F18's have more Greens in the optimal landing area. I understand they are different ships.
In my lack of knowledge, do the green dots mean Delta/Path's are good?
It just looks like to me that the F18's have more Greens in the optimal landing area. I understand they are different ships.
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Personally I'm not concerned about the green dots or whatever just that there is dispersion with DFP in both aircraft. DFP was in use with the F-35C that crashed (we don't know how yet) aboard VINSON. Some people want to insist that JPALS was in use. YES it may have been to get back to the carrier and into the marshal but it was not used for the carrier approach part. DFP was in use as has been described. One day when all is hunkydory with JPALS - certified for auto landings to touchdown - it will be used by both Super Hornet & Lightnings in night, rough weather and fatigued pilot deck landings. I have read in the old LSO newsletters that probably future pilots will 'hands off auto land' as a matter of course; while a 'hands on DFP landing' for example will become an 'emergency'. Navy Pilots today resist auto landings but they are meant to be practiced once in a while. Apparently they are very uncomfortable to experience, whilst it is hoped the JPALS auto land to touchdown/arrest will be more comfortable. Yes dispersion in the case of JPALS may be an issue but apparently overcome by slightly varying the programmed touch down point on deck. LSOs are said to be able to program the target wire as mentioned earlier.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 26th Jan 2022 at 07:00. Reason: + txt
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An Example of No.1 arrestor wire NOT set aboard USS Carl Vinson with an F-35C (double nuts 400 of VFA-147 "Argonauts") arresting on the target wire. SMOKIN'. 210128-N-SS900-1459.JPG (4310×3069) (defense.gov)
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CARRIER CABLE BREAK,S AFTER LANDING F18 HORNET !! [low quality video but informative]
_______________________________________
One for the heck of it - pilot not at fault - arrestor wire improperly installed below deck.
A4G Skyhawk 888 Wire Break HMAS Melbourne Pilot Eject OK Finan USN
One for the heck of it - pilot not at fault - arrestor wire improperly installed below deck.
A4G Skyhawk 888 Wire Break HMAS Melbourne Pilot Eject OK Finan USN
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 26th Jan 2022 at 14:00. Reason: advid
It does look pretty buoyant there. I do wonder if they managed to get any lines on it.
SpazSinbad Thanks for all the fantastic info and links. Awesome stuff.
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Race is on to reach sunken US jet... before China 27 Jan 2022 BBC News
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other...ina/ar-AATcSjj
"...National security experts say Chinese military would be "very keen" to get to the jet but a US salvage vessel looks to be at least 10 days away from the crash site. That's too late, says defence consultant Abi Austen, because the black box battery will die before then, making it harder to locate the aircraft...."
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other...ina/ar-AATcSjj
"...National security experts say Chinese military would be "very keen" to get to the jet but a US salvage vessel looks to be at least 10 days away from the crash site. That's too late, says defence consultant Abi Austen, because the black box battery will die before then, making it harder to locate the aircraft...."
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Once again this is conjecture and I'm not sure the video is even taken onboard VINSON however the power (perhaps to burner because I hear a HOWL at last second) comes on 'at the ramp' but all my conjecture could mean a fairly ordinary F-35C carrier approach. LSOs by the many monitor these approaches so any pilot not responding to their calls will be in big trouble. Anyhooo....
F-35C VFA-147 USS Carl Vinson Approach Full Power BUMP
F-35C VFA-147 USS Carl Vinson Approach Full Power BUMP
That smoke and debris appears much too early (and at the wrong end of the boat) to be associated with a wire break and flop over the side. Assuming that is a video of the approach in question, which seems very likely on first inspection, an altogether much uglier landing accident (such as a ramp strike) has to be considered more likely.
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That smoke and debris appears much too early (and at the wrong end of the boat) to be associated with a wire break and flop over the side. Assuming that is a video of the approach in question, which seems very likely on first inspection, an altogether much uglier landing accident (such as a ramp strike) has to be considered more likely.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 28th Jan 2022 at 08:58. Reason: ad jpg