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Reds not really military - BBC?

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Reds not really military - BBC?

Old 21st Jan 2022, 14:06
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Reds not really military - BBC?

“However, it is likely groups such as the RAF's Red Arrows will be permitted as they are less obviously linked to the military.”

Formula 1 bans military air displays at Grands Prix https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/60082961

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 21st Jan 2022 at 19:18. Reason: Fix link
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 14:45
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There is a big difference between a formation of Eurofighters going over and a dedicated display team.
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 15:25
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Seemingly on "sustainability and environmental grounds". Also reported here.

Perhaps reducing the number of races in a season to a more sensible figure would be a better means of reducing emissions when you take into consideration the amount of travel to/from a grand prix there is (air freight, sea freight, road freight, team member transport, fans travelling etc).
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 15:55
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Originally Posted by campbeex View Post
Seemingly on "sustainability and environmental grounds". Also reported here.

Perhaps reducing the number of races in a season to a more sensible figure would be a better means of reducing emissions when you take into consideration the amount of travel to/from a grand prix there is (air freight, sea freight, road freight, team member transport, fans travelling etc).
^ this. I wonder how the environmental impact of one display stacks up against the helicopter traffic, given the British Grand Prix generates enough of the latter to warrant its own 3-day RA(T).
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 16:16
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Well in my case any air display at grand pricks does not warrent my time. I record the highlight show only to watch the ensuing chaos. If I want a air show I go to my local GA airport and watch a few landings and take off's till the McDonalds run out.
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 19:10
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Are you saying that GA aircraft run on McDonalds?
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 22:46
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Originally Posted by chinook240 View Post
“However, it is likely groups such as the RAF's Red Arrows will be permitted as they are less obviously linked to the military.”
To be fair they fly a lot lower than some of the shows of peace the RAF gave us in Helmand
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Old 21st Jan 2022, 22:53
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Given the rational is supposed to be based one "sustainability and environmental grounds", what difference does military make? All air displays would have to be banned - even the common sight of a big Boeing or Airbus from a main sponsor airline.
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Old 22nd Jan 2022, 08:29
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All this talk of sustainability surrounding F1 is utter nonsense.

They might well use (very expensive) "sustainable" fuel in their cars but they still trawl round the world in chartered freight and pax aircraft with hundreds of trucks and motorhomes and the big names don't seem too worried about chartering private jets either.

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Old 24th Jan 2022, 06:48
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Looks like the Red Arrows can appear at Silverstone, but no word about the Patrouille de France or Frecce Tricolori at the French or Italians races respectively.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-ar...verstone-2022/
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 12:48
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The Reds are not military? that’s why they have Royal Air Force proudly blazoned down the side and the pilots are carefully selected from front line fighter squadrons!!
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 13:22
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SKOJB,

Media interpretation and knowledge of things is always found wanting, such as the use of an image of a Tornado prototype to accompany a story about Typhoons intercepting Russians.
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 13:47
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Originally Posted by SKOJB View Post
The Reds are not military? that’s why they have Royal Air Force proudly blazoned down the side and the pilots are carefully selected from front line fighter squadrons!!
Having a read a few separate news articles on the subject, there don't appear to be any that say the Red Arrows are not military, just that "as they are less obviously linked to the military".

Indeed, the suggestion for the ruling is that F1 are keen to avoid countries using grand prix as a showcase for their military muscle-flexing / willy-waving.
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 13:58
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Exactly. In the eyes of the British public they're more of a national ambassador / pride thing (a bit like Britannia, which I believe was manned by the RN). Furthermore they're not painted green/grey, and not really representative of any of our active military assets. I imagine their French and Italian counterparts will stay in, for the same reason.
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 16:46
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If the Hawk Mk1 is to go in a couple of months, could the Reds ones go on the civvy register and still be flown by RAF?
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 17:24
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RAFAT will continue using Hawk T.1's up to 2030 and possibly beyond, it is only the "Black" fleet being withdrawn.
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 19:56
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Since the RAF seem to want to contract most services out to industry, perhaps they could transfer the Reds to 2Excel. They could operate them alongside the "Blades" as "The Turbine Blades"
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 21:03
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Originally Posted by teeonefixer View Post
RAFAT will continue using Hawk T.1's up to 2030 and possibly beyond, it is only the "Black" fleet being withdrawn.
At what point do they become an Historic Flight?
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 22:02
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Originally Posted by OvertHawk View Post
All this talk of sustainability surrounding F1 is utter nonsense.

They might well use (very expensive) "sustainable" fuel in their cars but they still trawl round the world in chartered freight and pax aircraft with hundreds of trucks and motorhomes and the big names don't seem too worried about chartering private jets either.
Now here's an idea--if a obviously "military" flyover is too much, and F1 really wants to save fuel, how about fly over the chartered freighters instead? They're probably parked at an airfield nearby for the weekend, so no need to burn fuel on a ferry flight. A couple 747s in loose formation at low altitude* would be sufficiently impressive, at least to me.

*Yes I know it's a bad idea from an aviation safety perspective.
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Old 25th Jan 2022, 08:15
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Originally Posted by Tango and Cash View Post
Now here's an idea--if a obviously "military" flyover is too much, and F1 really wants to save fuel, how about fly over the chartered freighters instead? They're probably parked at an airfield nearby for the weekend, so no need to burn fuel on a ferry flight. A couple 747s in loose formation at low altitude* would be sufficiently impressive, at least to me.

*Yes I know it's a bad idea from an aviation safety perspective.
Back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests you can run a 747 for about 30 mins (or two 747s for about 15 minutes) on the fuel required to fill 9 Hawks.
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