BAe Hawk Mk. 1 W inquiry
BAe Hawk Mk. 1 W inquiry
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BAe Hawk T Mk. 1 W - What is it ?
Does anyone have any specific knowledge or even operating experience of the differences (purpose, capability, procedures, weight/balance etc.) involved with the BAe Hawk T.1W ?
I know that from the original British purchase of about 185 aircraft, 88 were converted to T.1A. with extra weapons capability. According to the excellent UK Serials website, a further 21 T.1s were at some time, designated as T.1W.
It has been suggested that this might have been a minor modification via adding or removing 'boxes' - even on a temporary or 'local acting' basis. There is clearly some confusion about the official designation because the MAA Accident summary of the crash of XX288 at Mona in August 1995 referred to the aircraft as a T.1W - whereas the same accident on ASN refers to XX288 as a T.1A.
I haven't managed to find anything on the net yet.
Any replies would be greatly appreciated, by post or PM if you prefer.
LFH
...
BAe Hawk T Mk. 1 W - What is it ?
Does anyone have any specific knowledge or even operating experience of the differences (purpose, capability, procedures, weight/balance etc.) involved with the BAe Hawk T.1W ?
I know that from the original British purchase of about 185 aircraft, 88 were converted to T.1A. with extra weapons capability. According to the excellent UK Serials website, a further 21 T.1s were at some time, designated as T.1W.
It has been suggested that this might have been a minor modification via adding or removing 'boxes' - even on a temporary or 'local acting' basis. There is clearly some confusion about the official designation because the MAA Accident summary of the crash of XX288 at Mona in August 1995 referred to the aircraft as a T.1W - whereas the same accident on ASN refers to XX288 as a T.1A.
I haven't managed to find anything on the net yet.
Any replies would be greatly appreciated, by post or PM if you prefer.
LFH
...
My recollection was that:
1. Hawk T1A = Provision for AIM-9 and the intervalometer
2. Weapons carry was always part of the T1 spec (if fitted or not)
3. T1(W) was a semi-formal shorthand for T1 actually fitted with the weapons employment capability
4. There was always confusion over the above, not helped by the T1A mod being a cover mod for a bunch of things, including kit that didn't actually make it onto all T1As
5. None of the above matters
1. Hawk T1A = Provision for AIM-9 and the intervalometer
2. Weapons carry was always part of the T1 spec (if fitted or not)
3. T1(W) was a semi-formal shorthand for T1 actually fitted with the weapons employment capability
4. There was always confusion over the above, not helped by the T1A mod being a cover mod for a bunch of things, including kit that didn't actually make it onto all T1As
5. None of the above matters
AFAIK all standard production Hawk T1's were fully wired for the weapons role, the Valley Hawks did not have the Gunsight (or Mass Key/Flag ?) fitted to the Glare Shields.
(Talking 1977 - 1980) > The Brawdy Hawks carried wing pylons as standard fit - whether carrying stores or not.
Even from fairly early days it was planned to 'rotate' the Weapons Role Hawks with Valley Hawks to even out the Fatigue Indexes.
I know they were specifically concerned about (initially) Stbd Wing upper skin cracks on the armed Hawks,there was a school of thought that carrying/firing the Snebs (usually carried on Stbd Pylons at that time certainly),aggravated cracking above the stbd pylon position - cannot remember the Rib Number LOL.
Last edited by longer ron; 14th Jan 2022 at 09:22.
Actually after a couple more coffees perhaps I can add a little anecdotal stuff.
After leaving the mob and via an 11 month gliding holiday in zimbabwe with occasional work on the AFZ Hawk T60's.
I ended up back in Blighty at Hawker Squiddely Dunsfold ostensibly for sea harrier production work in the 'Black Hangar' (although I had zero Harrier experience
)
Anyway initially I got grabbed by the Hawk production centre for various Hawk tasks - incl the rebuild/function stages on 2 Zimbabwe Hawk 60's which had been returned for repair after the 'bombs in the intakes' attack at Thornhill AFB (on the you used to work there - you fix them basis )
I also did quite a lot of work on the AIM 9 conversion aircraft (not sure how many we did - I know Abingdon did some Hawk update mods at one time) and we usually referred to these aircraft as 'War Role' Hawks,I don't know if anybody else referred to them as 'War Role'.I only mention that in case the (W) designation was related to war role.
As JTC posted above the T1A conversion was also a 'Roll Up' modification update programme which included stuff completely unrelated to the AIM 9 conversions (Rear Wing Mountings on the fuselage at Frame 29 were a fun job LOL)
After leaving the mob and via an 11 month gliding holiday in zimbabwe with occasional work on the AFZ Hawk T60's.
I ended up back in Blighty at Hawker Squiddely Dunsfold ostensibly for sea harrier production work in the 'Black Hangar' (although I had zero Harrier experience
)Anyway initially I got grabbed by the Hawk production centre for various Hawk tasks - incl the rebuild/function stages on 2 Zimbabwe Hawk 60's which had been returned for repair after the 'bombs in the intakes' attack at Thornhill AFB (on the you used to work there - you fix them basis
)I also did quite a lot of work on the AIM 9 conversion aircraft (not sure how many we did - I know Abingdon did some Hawk update mods at one time) and we usually referred to these aircraft as 'War Role' Hawks,I don't know if anybody else referred to them as 'War Role'.I only mention that in case the (W) designation was related to war role.
As JTC posted above the T1A conversion was also a 'Roll Up' modification update programme which included stuff completely unrelated to the AIM 9 conversions (Rear Wing Mountings on the fuselage at Frame 29 were a fun job LOL)
I'm stretching memory here and by no means authoritative, but wasn't a T.1(W) a T.1 original build, subsequently modded for pylons and AIM9, as distinct from a T.1A built to that spec with the additional mods as well.
The T1A mod provided 'real' weapons capability, plus AIM9, and the ability to have the gun and other armament live at the same time, as well as practice bombs and rockets - although I think rocketry had just about stopped by the time the T1As came in. The early T1As were also coming back, post mod, with the new AHRS, which replaced the old topply compass, which further confused the terminology. But the T1A was really all about winders and a point defence war role.
Here's my take on the story.....
The T.1 already had provision and clearance for a range of Practise bombs, 1000lb bomb and other weapons.
The "War Role" T.1A conversion added 3 servos for additional weapons: BL755, Sidewinder, plus 1 (Matra155 rocket pods?) and these were allocated to the TWUs.
After a few years of operations the RAF realised the aeroplanes at the TWUs suffered high FI usage, compared to the high flying hours but benign flying at the FTS (at Valley), hence had to deal with airframe management of 2 separate fleets.
The T.1W was a Service Engineering Mod (Not a DA approved Mod) to add 2 of these weapons to the T.1 (one required additional server with wiring down the wing leading edge to the pylon, so could not be installed without a lot of work) to give the fleet a wider weapons capability, especially as they then became centred at Valley.
I don't think there are visible differences in the aeroplane and as far as operation is concerned, there is only a minor weight & cg difference (masked by all the other mods & repairs over 40 years!)
The T.1 already had provision and clearance for a range of Practise bombs, 1000lb bomb and other weapons.
The "War Role" T.1A conversion added 3 servos for additional weapons: BL755, Sidewinder, plus 1 (Matra155 rocket pods?) and these were allocated to the TWUs.
After a few years of operations the RAF realised the aeroplanes at the TWUs suffered high FI usage, compared to the high flying hours but benign flying at the FTS (at Valley), hence had to deal with airframe management of 2 separate fleets.
The T.1W was a Service Engineering Mod (Not a DA approved Mod) to add 2 of these weapons to the T.1 (one required additional server with wiring down the wing leading edge to the pylon, so could not be installed without a lot of work) to give the fleet a wider weapons capability, especially as they then became centred at Valley.
I don't think there are visible differences in the aeroplane and as far as operation is concerned, there is only a minor weight & cg difference (masked by all the other mods & repairs over 40 years!)
My last flights in a Hawk (whilst still in uniform 
) were Abingdon - Brawdy - Abingdon in Feb '83...
XX281 post servicing/mod programme and delivery to Brawdy,pick up XX261 and deliver back to Abingdon as next into servicing/ mod programme.
I assume this was too early for the T1A conversion so presumably was just the 'wobbly compass' update (AHRS) + roll up mods/servicing due at that time,I think they were usually dropping the wings off to carry out the work in 'E' Hangar.
I was actually working in 'B' Hangar on Chippies and Bulldogs at the time so was not fully conversant with all the work being carried out in 'E' Hangar - luckily I had put my name down for a 'Jet Flight' almost as soon as I arrived at abingdon and it was great to spend an hour or 2 with my old mates at Brawdy - a lovely day out.
Just as an aside - it was one of only 2 different occasions when I flew in a jet with a young pilot - so great fun - he was a nice chap 'Holding' at Abingdon and helping out the UTP with aircraft deliveries etc.
) were Abingdon - Brawdy - Abingdon in Feb '83...XX281 post servicing/mod programme and delivery to Brawdy,pick up XX261 and deliver back to Abingdon as next into servicing/ mod programme.
I assume this was too early for the T1A conversion so presumably was just the 'wobbly compass' update (AHRS) + roll up mods/servicing due at that time,I think they were usually dropping the wings off to carry out the work in 'E' Hangar.
I was actually working in 'B' Hangar on Chippies and Bulldogs at the time so was not fully conversant with all the work being carried out in 'E' Hangar - luckily I had put my name down for a 'Jet Flight' almost as soon as I arrived at abingdon and it was great to spend an hour or 2 with my old mates at Brawdy - a lovely day out
.Just as an aside - it was one of only 2 different occasions when I flew in a jet with a young pilot - so great fun - he was a nice chap 'Holding' at Abingdon and helping out the UTP with aircraft deliveries etc.
Last edited by longer ron; 15th Jan 2022 at 13:52.
