Bottom Feeder or Good Guy
The Blair and Broon Governments made light work of any of the smaller advantages within Crab’s list (many of which were unaffordable in the longer term and have also now gone). The biggest mistakes were:
1. Iraq and GW2 - lies and deception. Instability in the Middle East and more radicalisation.
2. Afghanistan “British troops will leave without firing a single shot” - lies and deception. More instability and more radicalisation.
3. The freedom of movement decision in May 04, the EU welcomed 10 new member states – the majority from Central and Eastern Europe – in what was the largest expansion in the history of European integration. The UK was one of only 3 member states, with Sweden and Ireland, to open its labour market to these new EU citizens immediately. The dissatisfaction this brought is the major reason why Brexit occurred (although other reasons did similar) some 14 years later when the effects of that poor decision was realised by many British people.
4. Not “making hay when the sun shines” when the economy was booming. When it went bust in 2007 then they had squandered everything leading us to SDSR10 which was probably the worst Defence Review in a generation. Plus also saw other public sector organisations suffer - the NHS were proper whammed as were the Police.
5. New Labour and China. They obviously handed back Hong Kong, but that was set up by the previous Tories. But what it did was put New Labour into an ‘engagement’ strategy with China. They also supported China’s entrance into the WTO in 2001 through that strategy. We are now reaping the significant issues of a growing China thanks to that poor strategy. China overtook the British economy in 2005, passed Germany in 2006 and past Japan into second place in 2010. That Chinese accession is a significant issue.
So, no, Bliar does not deserve a Knighthood in my opinion as he has arguably made the UK and the wider world a far worse place for many humans to live. It has also seen the West and NATO grow weaker in the past 20 years and led us to the situation we are now in with China and Russia. Surely a Knighthood for a Prime Minister should be awarded on good results rather than attendance???
1. Iraq and GW2 - lies and deception. Instability in the Middle East and more radicalisation.
2. Afghanistan “British troops will leave without firing a single shot” - lies and deception. More instability and more radicalisation.
3. The freedom of movement decision in May 04, the EU welcomed 10 new member states – the majority from Central and Eastern Europe – in what was the largest expansion in the history of European integration. The UK was one of only 3 member states, with Sweden and Ireland, to open its labour market to these new EU citizens immediately. The dissatisfaction this brought is the major reason why Brexit occurred (although other reasons did similar) some 14 years later when the effects of that poor decision was realised by many British people.
4. Not “making hay when the sun shines” when the economy was booming. When it went bust in 2007 then they had squandered everything leading us to SDSR10 which was probably the worst Defence Review in a generation. Plus also saw other public sector organisations suffer - the NHS were proper whammed as were the Police.
5. New Labour and China. They obviously handed back Hong Kong, but that was set up by the previous Tories. But what it did was put New Labour into an ‘engagement’ strategy with China. They also supported China’s entrance into the WTO in 2001 through that strategy. We are now reaping the significant issues of a growing China thanks to that poor strategy. China overtook the British economy in 2005, passed Germany in 2006 and past Japan into second place in 2010. That Chinese accession is a significant issue.
So, no, Bliar does not deserve a Knighthood in my opinion as he has arguably made the UK and the wider world a far worse place for many humans to live. It has also seen the West and NATO grow weaker in the past 20 years and led us to the situation we are now in with China and Russia. Surely a Knighthood for a Prime Minister should be awarded on good results rather than attendance???
Excellent - so Labour are responsible for the rise of China......? dear oh dear.
1. Iraq and GW 2 have been discussed already - no Plan B and led by the Yanks unfortunately.
2. Afghanistan - see point 1 above BUT our withdrawal was an international disgrace and lack of support for Afghans who helped us continues to be so - try blaming that on TB and Labour.
3. As Brexit has proved - we need those foreign workers and you forget the disadvantage to UK citizens who wanted to live and work in Europe - let's not even start on the loss of EU funding or how Boris is having to offer more visas in order to get a trade deal with India.
4. Have a close look at what Conservatives have done to police and NHS numbers and funding over the years - did you miss the years of austerity??? Not to mention social services, mental health, local Govt finances etc etc. And apparently looking after your population is 'unaffordable'????
5. The Conservatives have been trying to placate China over Hong Kong and continue to do so and Boris went to China in 2013 to promote trade between our countries - ignoring any human rights issues as ever.
HMTQ has given TB the knighthood, not parliament, not Boris, not the House of Lords but HMTQ. After all her years in the job, do you really think she is a bad judge of character?
As for TB making the world a worse place to live for humans - I think you should watch less Fox News.
1. Iraq and GW 2 have been discussed already - no Plan B and led by the Yanks unfortunately.
2. Afghanistan - see point 1 above BUT our withdrawal was an international disgrace and lack of support for Afghans who helped us continues to be so - try blaming that on TB and Labour.
3. As Brexit has proved - we need those foreign workers and you forget the disadvantage to UK citizens who wanted to live and work in Europe - let's not even start on the loss of EU funding or how Boris is having to offer more visas in order to get a trade deal with India.
4. Have a close look at what Conservatives have done to police and NHS numbers and funding over the years - did you miss the years of austerity??? Not to mention social services, mental health, local Govt finances etc etc. And apparently looking after your population is 'unaffordable'????
5. The Conservatives have been trying to placate China over Hong Kong and continue to do so and Boris went to China in 2013 to promote trade between our countries - ignoring any human rights issues as ever.
HMTQ has given TB the knighthood, not parliament, not Boris, not the House of Lords but HMTQ. After all her years in the job, do you really think she is a bad judge of character?
As for TB making the world a worse place to live for humans - I think you should watch less Fox News.
Another New Year resolution gone. Having said that I would no reply here I am again. However I see crab has got there first but here goes anyway in reply to Bword
Para 1. Lies and deception a reason for going to war. Agreed, but we were always going to go to war with the Americans. Does anyone seriously think that a ‘blue’ government at the time would not have followed the Americans?
Para 2. Not firing a shot. Agreed, but we were driving around in snatch land rovers wearing soft hats. We have believed this hearts and minds rubbish since it worked in Malaya in 1950 because it is perceived to be ‘policing and on the cheap’. I am in the ‘grab them by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow’ camp.
Para. 3 Totally agree with you, a chronic failure to appreciate the consequences. We needed the labour, but not at the subsequent reduction in pay rates and conditions of our own people, for example care home staff.
Para. 4. The myth that the Brown treasury spent all the money, that it maxed out the credit card. Any Google search will show that Brown actually reduced the debt to GDP ratio until the banks went bust in early 2008, and Brown was forced to pump £400 billion into the system. One could say that it was a ‘light touch’ regulation that caused this collapse, but the Tories were crying out for even less regulation to allow the City to compete with New York. Then Osborne and austerity. Don’t believe this until you Google ‘Expansionary Fiscal Contraction’. Read about it and then wonder if Austerity was not just some huge experiment by someone with an O level in economics, or at worst an ideological con trick.
Para 5. Yeah we got to close to China, but China at the time had a very different philosophy before Xi. What was a government to do, when all almost 2 decades of blue governments had allowed our industry to be sent there by company bean counters to keep their share price going up. And lets not forget call me Dave buying Xi a pint, and Osborne getting into bed with the Chinese development bank, and this after it became obvious Xi was going to be a problem.
And Mrs Staircase has just walked in to tell me to ‘get a life’, so this definitely my last word.
Para 1. Lies and deception a reason for going to war. Agreed, but we were always going to go to war with the Americans. Does anyone seriously think that a ‘blue’ government at the time would not have followed the Americans?
Para 2. Not firing a shot. Agreed, but we were driving around in snatch land rovers wearing soft hats. We have believed this hearts and minds rubbish since it worked in Malaya in 1950 because it is perceived to be ‘policing and on the cheap’. I am in the ‘grab them by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow’ camp.
Para. 3 Totally agree with you, a chronic failure to appreciate the consequences. We needed the labour, but not at the subsequent reduction in pay rates and conditions of our own people, for example care home staff.
Para. 4. The myth that the Brown treasury spent all the money, that it maxed out the credit card. Any Google search will show that Brown actually reduced the debt to GDP ratio until the banks went bust in early 2008, and Brown was forced to pump £400 billion into the system. One could say that it was a ‘light touch’ regulation that caused this collapse, but the Tories were crying out for even less regulation to allow the City to compete with New York. Then Osborne and austerity. Don’t believe this until you Google ‘Expansionary Fiscal Contraction’. Read about it and then wonder if Austerity was not just some huge experiment by someone with an O level in economics, or at worst an ideological con trick.
Para 5. Yeah we got to close to China, but China at the time had a very different philosophy before Xi. What was a government to do, when all almost 2 decades of blue governments had allowed our industry to be sent there by company bean counters to keep their share price going up. And lets not forget call me Dave buying Xi a pint, and Osborne getting into bed with the Chinese development bank, and this after it became obvious Xi was going to be a problem.
And Mrs Staircase has just walked in to tell me to ‘get a life’, so this definitely my last word.
Last edited by staircase; 6th Jan 2022 at 11:03.
