What is going on at the top??
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It doesn’t really matter what CAS, the Queen, some chap I met in the Mess last week called Bernard or anyone here thinks. It won’t fundamentally change the fact that the RAF is a creaking institution with not enough assets to do the jobs it needs to, a Manning and policy organisation that treats people with such disdain they’d rather leave than stay and if we’re being really honest, that we’d probably not last long in a fully fledged shooting match with our eggs / one basket basing strategy.
But it’s a useful distraction from the reality of the situation at the coal face and gives everyone something to work towards along with the managed decline of our infrastructure.
But it’s a useful distraction from the reality of the situation at the coal face and gives everyone something to work towards along with the managed decline of our infrastructure.
Jacko
According to my dictionary the female version of aviator is in use. Furthermore, no matter what CAS might think, there are actresses who do not like the use of the masculine noun to refer to them. I wonder how long it will be before a female Aviator complains about the use of said male term .
According to my dictionary the female version of aviator is in use. Furthermore, no matter what CAS might think, there are actresses who do not like the use of the masculine noun to refer to them. I wonder how long it will be before a female Aviator complains about the use of said male term .
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Originally Posted by Jimlad1
"back in the day", Airmen made sense. Society has changed - 1 in 5 of the RAF is not male, so airmen seems inaccurate and innapropriate.
As usual the "of course there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" brigade are out in force getting worked up about a change that makes no impact or difference to their lives, but may make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now.
To those who say "but standards and in my day" - firstly, the operative phrase is 'your day' - that was then, this is now. Thank you for your service, but let those who are serving now express a view on what they want - your views are an irrelevance. Secondly, the RAF is always changing and has done since it was formed. The RAF you served in was so different to the one you joined, the one you learned about as a kid, and the one you left as to be a never permanent organisation - don't assume that because things were done a certain way once, that this continues to make sense.
Finally, you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have - you may want to get all angry and hit the keyboard moaning about snowflakes and diversity and how it was better when you were in - but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now. I personally think they deserve more respect than being insulted by yesterdays men who are unhappy with the idea of a very simple change.
As usual the "of course there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" brigade are out in force getting worked up about a change that makes no impact or difference to their lives, but may make a meaningful difference to those who are serving now.
To those who say "but standards and in my day" - firstly, the operative phrase is 'your day' - that was then, this is now. Thank you for your service, but let those who are serving now express a view on what they want - your views are an irrelevance. Secondly, the RAF is always changing and has done since it was formed. The RAF you served in was so different to the one you joined, the one you learned about as a kid, and the one you left as to be a never permanent organisation - don't assume that because things were done a certain way once, that this continues to make sense.
Finally, you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have - you may want to get all angry and hit the keyboard moaning about snowflakes and diversity and how it was better when you were in - but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now. I personally think they deserve more respect than being insulted by yesterdays men who are unhappy with the idea of a very simple change.
" there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" No Jimlad, you are an ignorant far-left racist. They are correct, discrimination in this sense doesn't exist. Airmen isn't a collective term for men and women you idiot, it refers to males only. Airwomen refers to females. Do you now see how stupid your comment about 20% of recruits being female really is, since the label doesn't apply to them?
A triggered woke lefty like you is also too thick to understand how nonsensical referring to RAF groundcrew as "aviators" really is.
"you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have"
Grow up you mental weakling, are you actually 42?
"but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now."
They have no business serving in a branch of the military if hurtful words are too much to handle. This simple terms airman and airwoman work find, meaning a change of them would be stupid.
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Originally Posted by STIG781
Jimlad, the terms airman and airwoman aren't going anywhere, and make NO difference to peoples' lives either.
" there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" No Jimlad, you are an ignorant far-left racist. They are correct, discrimination in this sense doesn't exist. Airmen isn't a collective term for men and women you idiot, it refers to males only. Airwomen refers to females. Do you now see how stupid your comment about 20% of recruits being female really is, since the label doesn't apply to them?
A triggered woke lefty like you is also too thick to understand how nonsensical referring to RAF groundcrew as "aviators" really is.
"you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have"
Grow up you mental weakling, are you actually 42?
"but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now."
They have no business serving in a branch of the military if hurtful words are too much to handle. This simple terms airman and airwoman work find, meaning a change of them would be stupid.
" there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" No Jimlad, you are an ignorant far-left racist. They are correct, discrimination in this sense doesn't exist. Airmen isn't a collective term for men and women you idiot, it refers to males only. Airwomen refers to females. Do you now see how stupid your comment about 20% of recruits being female really is, since the label doesn't apply to them?
A triggered woke lefty like you is also too thick to understand how nonsensical referring to RAF groundcrew as "aviators" really is.
"you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have"
Grow up you mental weakling, are you actually 42?
"but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now."
They have no business serving in a branch of the military if hurtful words are too much to handle. This simple terms airman and airwoman work find, meaning a change of them would be stupid.
You are quite right of course, there is some growing up to be done around here. Not convinced you directed that remark in the correct direction though…
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Originally Posted by STIG781
Jimlad, the terms airman and airwoman aren't going anywhere, and make NO difference to peoples' lives either.
" there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" No Jimlad, you are an ignorant far-left racist. They are correct, discrimination in this sense doesn't exist. Airmen isn't a collective term for men and women you idiot, it refers to males only. Airwomen refers to females. Do you now see how stupid your comment about 20% of recruits being female really is, since the label doesn't apply to them?
A triggered woke lefty like you is also too thick to understand how nonsensical referring to RAF groundcrew as "aviators" really is.
"you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have"
Grow up you mental weakling, are you actually 42?
"but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now."
They have no business serving in a branch of the military if hurtful words are too much to handle. This simple terms airman and airwoman work find, meaning a change of them would be stupid.
" there's no such thing as discrimination (mainly because I'm a middle class white male)" No Jimlad, you are an ignorant far-left racist. They are correct, discrimination in this sense doesn't exist. Airmen isn't a collective term for men and women you idiot, it refers to males only. Airwomen refers to females. Do you now see how stupid your comment about 20% of recruits being female really is, since the label doesn't apply to them?
A triggered woke lefty like you is also too thick to understand how nonsensical referring to RAF groundcrew as "aviators" really is.
"you may wish to reflect on the impact your words have"
Grow up you mental weakling, are you actually 42?
"but please remember that in moaning, you are directly attacking the people who serve now."
They have no business serving in a branch of the military if hurtful words are too much to handle. This simple terms airman and airwoman work find, meaning a change of them would be stupid.
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The CAS seems to have a similar management style to my current boss.
Lots of photo ops. Lots of pronouncements on diversity and wellbeing but very little engagement with fixing a collapsing organisation.
Lots of photo ops. Lots of pronouncements on diversity and wellbeing but very little engagement with fixing a collapsing organisation.
Originally Posted by Tashengurt
The CAS seems to have a similar management style to my current boss.
Lots of photo ops. Lots of pronouncements on diversity and wellbeing but very little engagement with fixing a collapsing organisation.
Lots of photo ops. Lots of pronouncements on diversity and wellbeing but very little engagement with fixing a collapsing organisation.
Originally Posted by Melchett01
It doesn’t really matter what CAS, the Queen, some chap I met in the Mess last week called Bernard or anyone here thinks. It won’t fundamentally change the fact that the RAF is a creaking institution with not enough assets to do the jobs it needs to, a Manning and policy organisation that treats people with such disdain they’d rather leave than stay and if we’re being really honest, that we’d probably not last long in a fully fledged shooting match with our eggs / one basket basing strategy.
But it’s a useful distraction from the reality of the situation at the coal face and gives everyone something to work towards along with the managed decline of our infrastructure.
But it’s a useful distraction from the reality of the situation at the coal face and gives everyone something to work towards along with the managed decline of our infrastructure.
Originally Posted by bunta130
That is truly sad....and, in my view, an utter failure of command. Once upon a time, people were the most important assets (oft said, never meant in reality - it's always been about kit).....the mantra is seemingly no longer repeated, but the outcomes remain the same.
NOTAM, you know what those letters mean? You're going to rejig the brain cells, at least in FAA land, it now means Notices To Air Missions.
When is GerMANy going to rename itself?
When is GerMANy going to rename itself?
Originally Posted by megan
When is GerMANy going to rename itself?
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Originally Posted by Jimlad1
"The people serving now have a 'champion' in the form of Veterans. We have a voice and can hold the government to account by using said voice through associations etc."
Having seen the attitudes on display here by 'veterans' I am genuinely embarrassed and ashamed to think that you feel your views reflect the modern military. Please don't presume to speak on behalf of it because your values, standards and conduct are woefully out of line with those serving.
Stop presuming that the system is the same now as it was when you were in - it isn't.
Frankly there is nothing more cringeworthy than encountering retired veterans who assume that they a) know what is genuinely going on in the military today and b) that the modern military want them to 'fight their corner' because frankly they don't.
Having seen the attitudes on display here by 'veterans' I am genuinely embarrassed and ashamed to think that you feel your views reflect the modern military. Please don't presume to speak on behalf of it because your values, standards and conduct are woefully out of line with those serving.
Stop presuming that the system is the same now as it was when you were in - it isn't.
Frankly there is nothing more cringeworthy than encountering retired veterans who assume that they a) know what is genuinely going on in the military today and b) that the modern military want them to 'fight their corner' because frankly they don't.
Originally Posted by Jimlad1
Frankly there is nothing more cringeworthy than encountering retired veterans who assume that they a) know what is genuinely going on in the military today and b) that the modern military want them to 'fight their corner' because frankly they don't.
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Originally Posted by megan
NOTAM, you know what those letters mean? You're going to rejig the brain cells, at least in FAA land, it now means Notices To Air Missions.
When is GerMANy going to rename itself?
When is GerMANy going to rename itself?
Yup, going to have to rename the following places as the contain the word “man” (which derives from the word for people!):
Germany
Cayman Islands
Romania
Isle of Man
Oman
Manchester
Godmanchester
Mansfield
Manhatten
Manitoba
I’m sure that there are more…
PS. Are we renaming the noun woman too?
Germany
Cayman Islands
Romania
Isle of Man
Oman
Manchester
Godmanchester
Mansfield
Manhatten
Manitoba
I’m sure that there are more…
PS. Are we renaming the noun woman too?
