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What is going on at the top??

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What is going on at the top??

Old 8th Dec 2021, 18:18
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PS. Are we renaming the noun woman too?
Woeman might be more apt.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 18:26
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The 1950's called. Apparently they want their sexists back.

Last edited by ExAscoteer2; 8th Dec 2021 at 18:53.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 19:59
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Star Trek had it correct, in as much as all senior officers, whether with XX or XY chromosomes*, were called 'Sir'.

*aware there were non-terran SOs who probably didn't have such things. But they were called sir too.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 20:20
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet View Post
Yup, going to have to rename the following places as the contain the word “man” (which derives from the word for people!):

Germany
Cayman Islands
Romania
Isle of Man
Oman
Manchester
Godmanchester
Mansfield
Manhatten
Manitoba

I’m sure that there are more…
Actually, there are less as they are not derived from the word for people.
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Old 8th Dec 2021, 20:59
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Originally Posted by Willard Whyte View Post
Star Trek had it correct, in as much as all senior officers, whether with XX or XY chromosomes*, were called 'Sir'.

*aware there were non-terran SOs who probably didn't have such things. But they were called sir too.
much easier solution - call everyone Senior to you ma’am, regardless of chromosomal status.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 07:51
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As the officer class represent the authority of the Monarch, calling everyone 'Ma'am' is not a bad idea. Then just change it to 'Sir' when Her Majesty leaves her post and PoW takes over. Change as the incumbent changes sides.
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 08:24
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And for those opposed to the change to Aviator on the basis that it is 'woke' and unnecessary then perhaps you could lobby for the use the collective noun 'airwoman/airwomen' for the next 103 years and then turn about again to airman/airmen?

This would satisfy the etymologists as it contains 'man' AND 'woman' and, surely, anyone objecting to the proposal is just being... woke!
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 08:51
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Not sure how many people are opposed to a change of title per se - perhaps more that the new title is inappropriate and well - 'Naff'.
As I mentioned previously - the RCAF changed from 'Private' to 'Aviator' in 2014 for similar reasons and yet 'private' was a gender neutral term already ????

Try to improve all that is seriously wrong/substandard with the RAF = Too Difficult

Spend lots of money changing a title which might offend 1% of members of the RAF and at the same time filling in the 'inclusive'/'diversity' Box = Tick
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 13:51
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Originally Posted by J.A.F.O. View Post
Actually, there are less as they are not derived from the word for people.
It's fewer, not less

Since I don't fly missions, being retired and flying only for fun, can I now ignore NOTAMS?
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Old 9th Dec 2021, 20:29
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Originally Posted by Heston View Post
It's fewer, not less
Thank you Heston, you are, of course, quite correct.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 11:48
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So its a done deal, announced in an IBN dated 07 Dec with immediate effect we're all to be known as Aviators. That's nice when you consider the survey asking for people's views is still open, its almost like they don't care what we think and we're going to do it anyway.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 12:21
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Originally Posted by 4everAD View Post
So its a done deal, announced in an IBN dated 07 Dec with immediate effect we're all to be known as Aviators. That's nice when you consider the survey asking for people's views is still open, its almost like they don't care what we think and we're going to do it anyway.
Do you care though? I don't. And a quick straw poll of the 20 or so people in work this morning suggests they don't either. I have much bigger issues than this.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 14:13
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Originally Posted by downsizer View Post
I have much bigger issues than this.
Isn’t that a large part of the problem here? The entire RAF has much bigger issues than this… shouldn’t upper leadership be focussing attention elsewhere?
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 20:32
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Yes, there are bigger issues, but tolerating stuff like this name change, and ignoring the feelings of the majority, is corrosive to the main. You only have to look at the AFCAS to see it, and ignoring the survey as it was a “done deal”, to appease an unrepresentative and minuscule minority, will only make it worse. https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...de-survey-2021

Headlines from the 2021 AFCAS
24% of the RAF think that change is managed well in the Service. Ie. 76% think it is bad!
17% of the RAF thought that morale was high, and 29% thought it was low. Ie. 83% think it’s ‘meh!’ or bad.
77% of the RAF thought their immediate superior understood and represents their interests. Ie. Immediate leadership is good.
29% of the RAF thought that their senior leadership (1-star and above) understood and represented their interests. Ie. 71% think that 1-star and above are disconnected from what they want.
42% of the RAF had confidence in their senior leadership (1-star and above). Ie. 58% have no confidence!
46% of the RAF felt valued by their Service. Ie. 54% don’t feel valued.
29% of the RAF plan to stay as long as they can. Ie. 71% are planning to leave as soon as they reasonably can!
55% of the RAF intend to leave at their next end of engagement, or stay until the end of it. Ie. 55% plan to leave without disadvantaging themselves.
3.7% of the RAF thought they felt discriminated against on the grounds of gender. Ie. Around 1,000 RAF Personnel of ~31,750.
1.2% of the RAF felt they were harassed on the grounds of gender. Ie. Around 380 RAF Personnel of ~31,750.
51% of the RAF are satisfied with their Service Families’ Accommodation. Ie. 49% are dissatisfied with their married quarters.
45% of the RAF are satisfied with their Single Living Accommodation. Ie. 55% are dissatisfied with their mess accomodation.

So what does that tell me? That personnel feel disconnected from their senior leadership (and it’s not surprising why) and people are more concerned about the poor state of their accommodation than they are about serious gender diversity and inclusion issues. It’s not just a 2021 thing either, but the WO and Senior Officer ‘Sycophant Twitterati’ that they seem to be listening to, do not represent the main stream views of the majority work force. We ignore that majority at our peril, if the rumoured 75%+ didn’t agree with the recent name change, this can only lead to higher dissatisfaction. It is also something that won’t be fixed by a single action, but any marginal gains are quickly eroded by a death by a thousand cuts!

Of the two dozen female colleagues that I have asked about the Aviator/Aviatrix, very few gave two hoots about the supposed gender issue raised by the legacy terms. However, 100% have said “My role is not an aviator, and I am a ********” (where ******** is any other Branch or Trade that does not involve flying). So really this seems to be a catastrophic fail all around from the opinions I hear about in the workspace.

If it was a lead on IOT then I suspect it would be a reshow!
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 22:32
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Cpl Clott, this is not how surveys work. For example:
45% of the RAF are satisfied with their Single Living Accommodation. Ie. 55% are dissatisfied with their mess accomodation.
You can't use the headline figure to conclude that 55% are dissatisfied, however tempting that might be, because the AFCAS questionnaire, like many surveys, uses normative questions. So whilst 45% are satisfied, what you won't know is how many are 'neither satisfied nor dissatisfied'. It could well be that 55% are incandescent about the state of their mess accommodation, but it could also be that 30% are ambivalent, so only 25% are actually dissatisfied. You need the detailed breakdown to avoid drawing false conclusions.

You could be right in all that you say but based on the stats alone you might also be wrong - 50% confidence in achieving (eg) a delivery date can be interpreted as either yes or no, depending on how optimistic you are.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 22:49
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Originally Posted by Fortissimo View Post

You could be right in all that you say but based on the stats alone you might also be wrong -.
You are quite right. stats show that the majority of the british public have an above average number of legs.
Easy. Not many people have 3 legs
Quite a few have one leg while many more have half a leg or just two thighs.
Therefore, the average number of legs per person in somwhere above 0 and less than 2. i.e. 1.(n) .
Consequently those with 2 legs have an above average number of legs per person than the national average.

Stats can prove anything you want.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 23:31
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Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
You are quite right. stats show that the majority of the british public have an above average number of legs.
Easy. Not many people have 3 legs
Quite a few have one leg while many more have half a leg or just two thighs.
Therefore, the average number of legs per person in somwhere above 0 and less than 2. i.e. 1.(n) .
Consequently those with 2 legs have an above average number of legs per person than the national average.

Stats can prove anything you want.
You we’re correct up to the last sentence. Not anything you want, use stats to prove most people have 3 legs for example
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 23:45
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
use stats to prove most people have 3 legs for example
Touche! that skill is taught after winning a Parliamentary election!
Just another statistic for you, "The further north one goes, the average Puffin gains an average of 1 oz gain in weight. which is why there are no puffins at the pole or the equator, They are either then too big or small to survive. Conversely, the further south one goes...loses 1oz...."

Puffins by the way, are aviators; Emus are not. Both avian creatures, though I dare not use the term - bird!
Perhaps we could use the term Avian instead of Aviator, both associated with flight, but not all capable of it.

Last edited by cynicalint; 11th Dec 2021 at 00:06.
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Old 11th Dec 2021, 00:19
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Originally Posted by cynicalint View Post
Touche! that skill is taught after winning a Parliamentary election!
Just another statistic for you, "The further north one goes, the average Puffin gains an average of 1 oz gain in weight. which is why there are no puffins at the pole or the equator, They are either then too big or small to survive. Conversely, the further south one goes...loses 1oz...."

Puffins by the way, are aviators; Emus are not. Both avian creatures, though I dare not use the term - bird!
Perhaps we could use the term Avian instead of Aviator, both associated with flight, but not all capable of it.
You will also find the Norwegian birth rate used to peak when the migrating storks arrived, and for all I know, it still does. Statistics are misused on a daily basis but that should not be used to discredit that particular branch of maths, rather it should make us want to learn more so we are not so easily deceived..
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Old 11th Dec 2021, 11:10
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
You will also find the Norwegian birth rate used to peak when the migrating storks arrived, and for all I know, it still does. Statistics are misused on a daily basis but that should not be used to discredit that particular branch of maths, rather it should make us want to learn more so we are not so easily deceived..
regardless of the weights of puffins, storks or Norwegians, I’m surprised that as many as 45% are happy with their single accommodation!
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