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UK F-35B Lost

Old 18th Nov 2021, 21:25
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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A unique feature of the US16E is the trio of airbags that inflate in a two-stage process to protect the head and neck of the F-35 pilot, wearing the large helmet-mounted display, upon ejection. Also of note, the F-35B version of the Lightning II has an auto-eject mode. This is designed to function in the specific instance where the STOVL aircraft is in the hover, and the shaft-driven lift fan fails.

In that case, the jet is likely to pitch down sharply, quicker than the pilot can react to fire the seat manually. It will therefore fire automatically while the possibility of escape remains.
I wonder if this was what happened. If so, I hope there was an issue with the lift fan and not a malfunction with the AI and the sensing system. The poor Pilot will be proper miffed if they were flying a fairly serviceable jet and then it punched them out!
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 21:39
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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I'd be more miffed if I'd punched out of a jet that was perfectly serv...
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 22:05
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Marine Traffic shows HMS QE (1 min ago), HMS Defender (14 hrs ago), and RFA Tidespring (4 hrs ago) just north of the island of Crete - would the carrier strike group remain in the vicinity of the downed F35? If so, is this the actual location?
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 22:10
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Presumably legs get pulled to the seat in auto-eject as in a normal ejection - but what happens to one's arms that have hands on throttle and stick?!!!
Is there any warning - aural cue in headset?
I assume so given the massive potential for flail injuries or even striking the cockpit rim on the way out?
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 23:02
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ZH871 View Post
Marine Traffic shows HMS QE (1 min ago), HMS Defender (14 hrs ago), and RFA Tidespring (4 hrs ago) just north of the island of Crete - would the carrier strike group remain in the vicinity of the downed F35? If so, is this the actual location?

Assume it would make it to obvious, but I would bet which ever astute was escorting will remain lurking and watching
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 23:18
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
Presumably legs get pulled to the seat in auto-eject as in a normal ejection - but what happens to one's arms that have hands on throttle and stick?!!!
Is there any warning - aural cue in headset?
I assume so given the massive potential for flail injuries or even striking the cockpit rim on the way out?
Don't they have arm retraction via a jacket they wear? I think such a thing was in use as far back as the 80s in Tornados. But I have a vivid imagination!

CG
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Old 18th Nov 2021, 23:24
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Rumours already spreading around about the cause on egoat. Won't post it, as the media will pick it up.



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Old 18th Nov 2021, 23:53
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Surely not something so obvious.
Aren't they red to stop such things happening?
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 00:14
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Moi/ View Post
Rumours already spreading around about the cause on egoat. Won't post it, as the media will pick it up.
You think the media don't/can't read egoat?
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 00:34
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Arm restraint mechanism shown here.
https://survitecgroup.com/media/3451...5-brochure.pdf
Each suit tailored to the individual pilot!
More on the seat here:
https://martin-baker.com/wp-content/...t-Aug-2021.pdf
Noting the Forger also had auto-eject.
I wonder if the aircraft tells the pilot it's about to eject them - you would certainly hope so.
Considering the function would be armed in low and slow portion of the flight envelope where things could happen very quickly.
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 01:47
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Courtney Mil View Post
If anyone here is still concerned about “someone” being capable to locate the wreckage, the sonar locator in the ADR will be a big clue. Unless, of course, it has a special stealth version that can’t be detected. But…
Just lucky they saw it crash and had naval divers and mini-subs handy then. They are standing watch.
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 01:58
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
Arm restraint mechanism shown here.
https://survitecgroup.com/media/3451...5-brochure.pdf
Each suit tailored to the individual pilot!
More on the seat here:
https://martin-baker.com/wp-content/...t-Aug-2021.pdf
Noting the Forger also had auto-eject.
I wonder if the aircraft tells the pilot it's about to eject them - you would certainly hope so.
Considering the function would be armed in low and slow portion of the flight envelope where things could happen very quickly.
Good PDF thanks (date 2019 - an earlier PDF is less detailed). Pics from the 2019 PDF


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Old 19th Nov 2021, 02:00
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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F-35B Auto Eject in STOVL Mode is below 0.6 second actuation. There is no time for warning or for pilot to react except BP Be Prepared. I thought the time was 0.4 second which may be how fast it is actuated.
Test Flying The Joint Strike Fighter 17 June 2011 Graham Tomlinson
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/hawkerass...kefighter.html
“...In the unlikely event of the lift fan failing catastrophically the aircraft would pitch inverted in 0.6 seconds, and the pilot is protected by auto-ejection signalled by pitch rate and attitude..."
&
Synopsis of Lecture to RAeS Loughborough Branch on 08 Mar 2011 - Martin-Baker: the JSF story so far by Steve Roberts, JSG IPT Lead, Martin-Baker Aircraft Company Ltd
"...A typical pilot takes two seconds to react to the ejection klaxon or one second if warned in advance of a likely failure. In the case of a STOVL related failure, ejection must take place within 0.6 seconds. Hence it was necessary to install smart failure sensors on the aircraft to automatically fire the ejection circuit mounted in the back of the seat....”
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.ol...JSF%20seat.pdf

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 19th Nov 2021 at 02:11. Reason: add quotes
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 02:59
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed - all that thrust vectoring vertical out the back and no lift-fan vector - it'd just pitch forward and somersault.
So they might hear a fraction of a second sound of the klaxon before being catapulted out...
This also:
https://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MI...10-01-2330.pdf
Sounds like it's the ICAWS which makes the punch out decision when auto-eject is armed.
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 03:00
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure if the 'leg restraints' shown in JPG are used OR they are for the specific canopy tests being undertaken:
Second Vendor F-35 Canopy Testing Completed - Aerospace & Defense Technology (aerodefensetech.com)
JPG: 20200514_Defense_Story2.jpg (600×800) (cloudinary.com)

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Old 19th Nov 2021, 03:14
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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From 'tartare' cited PDF above: F-35 Lightning II Cockpit Vision 19 Oct 2010 Michael Skaff
https://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MI...10-01-2330.pdf (0.7Mb)
"...In the unlikely event of catastrophic engine failure in hover mode the F-35 is equipped with an automatic ejection seat. This feature is only armed and available at the extremes of the vertical landing envelope. At first thought an auto-eject function seems extreme to most pilots, but once they are made aware of the time critical urgency and the total inability of the human to command a manual ejection during low altitude hover, most are thankful for this capability. This is a clear example of letting the computer do what computers do best...."
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 05:06
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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This was not an auto-ejection, but yes - the F35 does have arm and leg restraints that operate no matter which way the seat leaves the jet.
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 07:24
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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'The suits is individually tailored' may lead some to imagine Saville Row, there is a standard size range of F-35 PFE, Sizing/fitting is just about the same as you'd get in any Squipper bay, only the helmet might be considered 'tailored'.

As the above poster mentioned, active arm and passive leg restraint are standard on F-35 seats, along with head and neck protection.
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 07:35
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Planned visit by Prince Charles to the Carrier today has been cancelled. Crew are possibly a bit otherwise engaged
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Old 19th Nov 2021, 12:56
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Surprised the USA are not offering recovery assistance as well, or are they?
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