UK F-35B Lost
Absolutely believe this is a big part of the problem, based purely on my Joe Public's perspective.
One thing I have noticed and this is only from the original video clip posted on Twitter. The Nozzle position seems to move from 1/2 down at the start, to fully rear on the roll, then to full down as it goes up the ramp. Is this normal for it to change positions on a take off roll, or is this potentially due to the loss of thrust?
One thing I have noticed and this is only from the original video clip posted on Twitter. The Nozzle position seems to move from 1/2 down at the start, to fully rear on the roll, then to full down as it goes up the ramp. Is this normal for it to change positions on a take off roll, or is this potentially due to the loss of thrust?
This is 2021. That will have been shared almost immediately with Whitehall, etc and key others ashore. I bet the Secretary for Defence, Ben Wallace, who of course has to stand up in Parliament and announce a loss of £100m of public assets, saw it within a few hours. Plus all his officials ...
Absolutely believe this is a big part of the problem, based purely on my Joe Public's perspective.
One thing I have noticed and this is only from the original video clip posted on Twitter. The Nozzle position seems to move from 1/2 down at the start, to fully rear on the roll, then to full down as it goes up the ramp. Is this normal for it to change positions on a take off roll, or is this potentially due to the loss of thrust?
One thing I have noticed and this is only from the original video clip posted on Twitter. The Nozzle position seems to move from 1/2 down at the start, to fully rear on the roll, then to full down as it goes up the ramp. Is this normal for it to change positions on a take off roll, or is this potentially due to the loss of thrust?
But I wonder whether the software also caters for ski-jump takeoffs? Ski-jump takeoffs were not part of the original USMC requirement, and I believe were only added fairly late in the development programme as an RN/RAF requirement.
Was not on a RAF airfield. I doubt that video was leaked by anyone from the RAF. Ships crew released that. The Captain has a problem with his company. I work for a civvy company that has good leaders and doesn't have the problem of a rogue person throwing rubbish out. It also has a secure paperwork proceedure for removal of blanks in a tech log. From a lesson learned I wager. More problems that the RAF or RN have as well! Faye Turney's I Phone is alive and well.
No particular reason to believe the video was leaked by anyone on board. By this stage it's likely been shared quite legitimately with multiple organisations, civilian contractors etc; the leak could have originated from any of them
Flying machines are called aircraft, not planes.Sort your use of the English language out
I know one element of the auto eject is based on pitch rate, example being loss of the fan in the hover, pitch rate is such that a pilot can not react in sufficient time to save him/herself.
Last edited by megan; 30th Nov 2021 at 12:14.
Talking SHAR here: If you got full power (c2.4 secs after wheel-drag) you were going off the front one way or the other. If the brakes failed to release, it made no difference, you just got flat wheels. Average deck run was only in the region of 4 seconds, so not much time for faffing about.
I have no info on the Dave but I guess it is similar.
BZ M-B!
Mog
Clearly I have no idea what happened here, but.........
During my time on HERMES in 82, a fellow GR3 mate was due to take off and was lined up at a distance from the front end which he thought was too short based on his VSTOL calculations and the given wind over deck. He said "that is too short", but was told no, that is the correct distance. After a minor discussion, he did what was required by the RN - "do as you are told" - confirmed that his "Master Arm" was on, visually checked for the "Clear Aircraft" bar, and "did as he was told".
Of no surprise when he left the front end, he was not climbing away to fly, but sinking towards the oggin - so he pressed the "Clear Aircraft" bar, which reduced his weight sufficiently to fly away.
Well done him - but I don't think he got a "BZ" from the RN - or the RAF - for saving the aircraft - or even an acknowledgment that he was correct, and the RN was wrong.
Obviously no prospect of a repeat error in the current climate!!
During my time on HERMES in 82, a fellow GR3 mate was due to take off and was lined up at a distance from the front end which he thought was too short based on his VSTOL calculations and the given wind over deck. He said "that is too short", but was told no, that is the correct distance. After a minor discussion, he did what was required by the RN - "do as you are told" - confirmed that his "Master Arm" was on, visually checked for the "Clear Aircraft" bar, and "did as he was told".
Of no surprise when he left the front end, he was not climbing away to fly, but sinking towards the oggin - so he pressed the "Clear Aircraft" bar, which reduced his weight sufficiently to fly away.
Well done him - but I don't think he got a "BZ" from the RN - or the RAF - for saving the aircraft - or even an acknowledgment that he was correct, and the RN was wrong.
Obviously no prospect of a repeat error in the current climate!!
Thanks Mog and EFJ. So I suppose that, even if the pilot senses or is informed of a loss of thrust, the only thing he/she can do is sit with it and hope that it flies and be ready to eject.
This is 2021. That will have been shared almost immediately with Whitehall, etc and key others ashore. I bet the Secretary for Defence, Ben Wallace, who of course has to stand up in Parliament and announce a loss of £100m of public assets, saw it within a few hours. Plus all his officials ...
Thread Starter
How often have we seen on these pages "lessons have been learnt" etc, then we see this...
Procedure to show all pre flights completed is being introduced. US@C had a similar incident, but not widely reported.
Cat Techie , no I am not part of the JSF program but I, like others, have a real concern about an over- reliance on simulators. I know a couple of the F35 guys and a good few Typhoon pilots too. I know which ones get more time doing real flying.
Serious question... do pilots do a "simulated" walkround before a sim trip?
Procedure to show all pre flights completed is being introduced. US@C had a similar incident, but not widely reported.
Cat Techie , no I am not part of the JSF program but I, like others, have a real concern about an over- reliance on simulators. I know a couple of the F35 guys and a good few Typhoon pilots too. I know which ones get more time doing real flying.
Serious question... do pilots do a "simulated" walkround before a sim trip?
In the sim I ran it was pretty hard to get the crews to do any checks prior to the end of the runway. They always wanted a “hot start” . It was a hobby horse of mine; if you want sims to count as flying you have to do every element of the sortie, including start up and taxi back / shut down. When we did do “cold” starts we would sometimes say “I am holding up x pins” where x was the wrong number.
Last edited by Timelord; 30th Nov 2021 at 14:53.
Re question: #216, ?
a takeoff distance calculation - brakes off to ramp, to accommodate differing mass.
From the video #236, the first aircraft starts after the line (2), the second from behind the line; why the different ground roll mass ?
The leaked video appears to have a shorter ground roll than both.
From the video #236, the first aircraft starts after the line (2), the second from behind the line; why the different ground roll mass ?
The leaked video appears to have a shorter ground roll than both.
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"Procedure to show all pre flights completed is being introduced. US@C had a similair incident, but not widely reported.
This accident took place towards the end of a what has been a long and successful deployment with numerous launches from QNLZ by RAF, USMC and Italian F-35B's.
I can't see how any difference in pre flight procedures would not have been noted and incorporated long before this event took place.
Surely USMC, RAF and RN air and ground crew have been working together closely enough to have raised this similair incident?
This accident took place towards the end of a what has been a long and successful deployment with numerous launches from QNLZ by RAF, USMC and Italian F-35B's.
I can't see how any difference in pre flight procedures would not have been noted and incorporated long before this event took place.
Surely USMC, RAF and RN air and ground crew have been working together closely enough to have raised this similair incident?
Re question: #216, ?
a takeoff distance calculation - brakes off to ramp, to accommodate differing mass.
From the video #236, the first aircraft starts after the line (2), the second from behind the line; why the different ground roll mass ?
The leaked video appears to have a shorter ground roll than both.
From the video #236, the first aircraft starts after the line (2), the second from behind the line; why the different ground roll mass ?
The leaked video appears to have a shorter ground roll than both.
I suspect that the same applies to Dave.
Mog
How often have we seen on these pages "lessons have been learnt" etc, then we see this...
Procedure to show all pre flights completed is being introduced. US@C had a similar incident, but not widely reported.
Cat Techie , no I am not part of the JSF program but I, like others, have a real concern about an over- reliance on simulators. I know a couple of the F35 guys and a good few Typhoon pilots too. I know which ones get more time doing real flying.
Serious question... do pilots do a "simulated" walkround before a sim trip?
Procedure to show all pre flights completed is being introduced. US@C had a similar incident, but not widely reported.
Cat Techie , no I am not part of the JSF program but I, like others, have a real concern about an over- reliance on simulators. I know a couple of the F35 guys and a good few Typhoon pilots too. I know which ones get more time doing real flying.
Serious question... do pilots do a "simulated" walkround before a sim trip?
As for proceedure. Civvy turboprops I am involved with have strops and blanks fitted as policy. With a tech log entry obvious to the Captain that they are fitted. They are signed for being removed by morning engineers or the Captain if no engineer is available. Simple but effective.