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UK F-35B Lost

Old 29th Nov 2021, 22:43
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
They are distractions to the wind down. Secondary considerations. I do engine runs in work and pleasure. The gauges are main. You run a gas turbine recently? Warning and Caution lights would have been coming on as he banged out!
My question is surely the pilot would have had multiple indications ("do you see it, do you hear it, do you feel it?" as instructors will say) that the jet was not developing enough power to take off?
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 22:47
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
Sims don't simulate thrust.
Probably his previous 10 sorties were sat in front of giant samsung monitors.
Bet he flew a few profiles off land first. Please tell us you are involved with the JSF programme? Your statement makes me think not. Let us not confuse the Daily Telegraph journo reading this.
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 22:57
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
My question is surely the pilot would have had multiple indications ("do you see it, do you hear it, do you feel it?" as instructors will say) that the jet was not developing enough power to take off?
Oil pressures tend to be the first lights to go out and last to come on. Flow would fall away but that is a function of HP pump draw, tied to RPM. Hyd pressures have an accumulator that holds some system pressure against the transmitter so drop is delayed. The pilot had deceleration and RPM wind down as a decision. It was falling off the end of the ramp. Pull handle.That simple a get out decision. Sorry gents, I worked as a certifier on a jet airliner last week. I know how systems work and have currency. Even with my off shift wine content. Journo reading this. Flying machines are called aircraft, not planes.Sort your use of the English language out!

Last edited by Cat Techie; 29th Nov 2021 at 23:15.
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:05
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
…Another Navy Cock up!
Originally Posted by Cat Techie View Post
That should have been impounded as evidence so Capt QE is at fault.
You certainly seem to have an agenda. How could the Captain impound a video of a video being played on a monitor somewhere?

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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:20
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FODPlod View Post
You certainly seem to have an agenda. How could the Captain impound a video of a video being played on a monitor somewhere?
Was not on a RAF airfield. I doubt that video was leaked by anyone from the RAF. Ships crew released that. The Captain has a problem with his company. I work for a civvy company that has good leaders and doesn't have the problem of a rogue person throwing rubbish out. It also has a secure paperwork proceedure for removal of blanks in a tech log. From a lesson learned I wager. More problems that the RAF or RN have as well! Faye Turney's I Phone is alive and well.
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:38
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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I assume the jet would have had way too much inertia to reject the take off, chop the power and apply full brakes at or near the bottom of the ramp?
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:46
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
I assume the jet would have had way too much inertia to reject the take off, chop the power and apply full brakes at or near the bottom of the ramp?
Perhaps, but worth a bloody good try if you know you have a fundamental loss of thrust and that you’ll be ejecting if you can’t stop!
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:54
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
I assume the jet would have had way too much inertia to reject the take off, chop the power and apply full brakes at or near the bottom of the ramp?
The engine was fodded just after he started to roll. Just as the infamous Vulcan eat the sillica gel bag episode happened. Jet was rolling before intake suction release the "ate" item that should not have been there. The pilot had no chance to work out the failure and stop. Wonder if the service enquiry will try the "Sully Sim" save the aircraft sketch?
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Old 29th Nov 2021, 23:55
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Reason I ask is that it is decelerating as it goes up the ramp (whether due to a loss of speed due to the incline, or braking/reduced power).
And the noise doesn't decrease or change in pitch which suggests the throttle wasn't suddenly closed.
Could be a multiplicity of factors in play.
Although they're heavily trained not to - pilot startles and doesn't react quickly enough to insufficient power?
*If* it's an ingested blank, it moves suddenly during take off roll and degrades thrust?
Will be a very interesting accident report.
Not blaming the driver - just trying to understand the possibilities.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 00:21
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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In the first part of this compilation video the A4G pilot is standing on the brakes hoping to stop with FLYCO calling 'EJECT' which he does at the end to be rescued OK. Similarly we hear the pilot in the second video explaining what has happened so he is rescued OK with no ejection. It was calculated that IF he had ejected as the aircraft was DIVING down then he would not have survived. First cold cat (last catapult of an A4G) caused by cat crew in a hurry not carrying out all check procedures. Second cold cat cause never discovered with many replication attempts (not with an aircraft attached of course).

RAN Skyhawk A4Gs 885 & 889 Cold Catapult Ejections - 2nd 'not quite' - Both Pilots OK - Compilation

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Old 30th Nov 2021, 00:40
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad View Post
In the first part of this compilation video the A4G pilot is standing on the brakes hoping to stop with FLYCO calling 'EJECT' which he does at the end to be rescued OK. Similarly we hear the pilot in the second video explaining what has happened so he is rescued OK with no ejection. It was calculated that IF he had ejected as the aircraft was DIVING down then he would not have survived. First cold cat (last catapult of an A4G) caused by cat crew in a hurry not carrying out all check procedures. Second cold cat cause never discovered with many replication attempts (not with an aircraft attached of course).

RAN Skyhawk A4Gs 885 & 889 Cold Catapult Ejections - 2nd 'not quite' - Both Pilots OK - Compilation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4pBkzGdmYE
Jeez - lucky man.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 06:12
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Wheel brakes stuck partially on?

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Old 30th Nov 2021, 06:41
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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It seems to me from the video that the aircraft is initially accelerating, but just after entering the ramp it starts to slow, possibly with brakes applied, but too late to stop.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 08:04
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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How on earth did the F35 driver not detect that huge lack of acceleration?
I wonder how many of the experts commenting here have experience flying the F35...
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 08:17
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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Bu**er the £100M. The pilot is safe. And well done Martin-Baker who, 3 years ago in court, were accused by MoD and the HSE of not understanding how their designs work. This incident made it 7662 aircrew and families who disagree.
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 08:22
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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The Harrier required a takeoff distance calculation - brakes off to ramp, to accommodate differing mass.

Does the F-35 require a similar calculation; if so, is the distance to the start of ramp or top of ramp (cf Harrier incident with miscalculated distance).
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 08:25
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LateArmLive View Post
I wonder how many of the experts commenting here have experience flying the F35...
Fair but lots of people on here fly aeroplanes!

On the face of it seems there should have been plenty of clues it was non-normal.





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Old 30th Nov 2021, 08:46
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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Any record of Harrier ejections on take off from an Invincible class due loss of performance on the ski-jump? Or is this incident a first for STOVL carrier ops.


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Old 30th Nov 2021, 08:52
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY View Post
Sims don't simulate thrust.
Probably his previous 10 sorties were sat in front of giant samsung monitors.
Absolutely believe this is a big part of the problem, based purely on my Joe Public's perspective.


One thing I have noticed and this is only from the original video clip posted on Twitter. The Nozzle position seems to move from 1/2 down at the start, to fully rear on the roll, then to full down as it goes up the ramp. Is this normal for it to change positions on a take off roll, or is this potentially due to the loss of thrust?
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Old 30th Nov 2021, 09:46
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tucumseh View Post
Bu**er the £100M. The pilot is safe. And well done Martin-Baker who, 3 years ago in court, were accused by MoD and the HSE of not understanding how their designs work. This incident made it 7662 aircrew and families who disagree.

Ditto: MB did their stuff - c10secs from rockets to splash with full canopy deployed.

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