Spanish F-18 Replacement
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Spanish F-18 Replacement
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-...aging-hornets/
F-35, Eurofighter Typhoon are ‘the two options’ to replace Spain’s aging Hornets
MADRID — Spain has two aircraft in mind to replace over 70 EF-18A fighter jets, and while the program has yet to formally begin, the informal competition between the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Lockheed Martin F-35 is just getting hotter.
Madrid is running two separate efforts to replace its aging Hornets, with the first and more immediate effort involving its 20 oldest platforms, currently based in the Canary Islands. While the contract has yet to be signed, the service expects to substitute those aircraft on a 1-1 basis with Eurofighter Typhoon multirole jets, said Col. Jesus Ferrer, chief of coordination for fixed-wing systems for Spain’s military procurement office.
The second program aims to replace the wider F-18 fleet, operating out of the air force’s Zaragoza and Torrejón air bases. Lockheed Martin’s F-35 is being considered for this program along with more Eurofighters, Ferrer told Defense News Thursday on the sidelines of the biennial FEINDEF conference in Madrid. “Those are the two options,” he asserted……
The wider F-18 fleet is scheduled to remain in service until at least 2030, and Spain’s procurement office is just beginning the aircraft feasibility studies, Ferrer said. It may come down to one major factor: Whether the Navy opts to buy about a dozen F-35B vertical-takeoff-and-landing (VTOL) aircraft. “If they get the F-35, one option for the Spanish air force will be to purchase the F-35, but we are weighing all the options,” Ferrer said.
But the Typhoons also remain very much in play. “The Spanish air force is very linked to the Eurofighter world,” he noted.
A contract for the 20 Canary Islands-based aircraft may arrive by next year, pending government approval of funds, Ferrer said…..
F-35, Eurofighter Typhoon are ‘the two options’ to replace Spain’s aging Hornets
MADRID — Spain has two aircraft in mind to replace over 70 EF-18A fighter jets, and while the program has yet to formally begin, the informal competition between the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Lockheed Martin F-35 is just getting hotter.
Madrid is running two separate efforts to replace its aging Hornets, with the first and more immediate effort involving its 20 oldest platforms, currently based in the Canary Islands. While the contract has yet to be signed, the service expects to substitute those aircraft on a 1-1 basis with Eurofighter Typhoon multirole jets, said Col. Jesus Ferrer, chief of coordination for fixed-wing systems for Spain’s military procurement office.
The second program aims to replace the wider F-18 fleet, operating out of the air force’s Zaragoza and Torrejón air bases. Lockheed Martin’s F-35 is being considered for this program along with more Eurofighters, Ferrer told Defense News Thursday on the sidelines of the biennial FEINDEF conference in Madrid. “Those are the two options,” he asserted……
The wider F-18 fleet is scheduled to remain in service until at least 2030, and Spain’s procurement office is just beginning the aircraft feasibility studies, Ferrer said. It may come down to one major factor: Whether the Navy opts to buy about a dozen F-35B vertical-takeoff-and-landing (VTOL) aircraft. “If they get the F-35, one option for the Spanish air force will be to purchase the F-35, but we are weighing all the options,” Ferrer said.
But the Typhoons also remain very much in play. “The Spanish air force is very linked to the Eurofighter world,” he noted.
A contract for the 20 Canary Islands-based aircraft may arrive by next year, pending government approval of funds, Ferrer said…..
It might well be, no competition has yet been launched publicly. The F-35 report comes from a (presumably Lockheed Martin) official saying they have answered a request for information. Others may also have answered the same request. That said, despite the air force already flying the Hornet, I would be surprised if they were looking at the Super Hornet.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Errr, no.
As the report above says, the source of the information is Col. Jesus Ferrer, chief of coordination for fixed-wing systems for Spain’s military procurement office.
As the report above says, the source of the information is Col. Jesus Ferrer, chief of coordination for fixed-wing systems for Spain’s military procurement office.
The EdA has roughly equal numbers of F18s and Typhoons, replacing the former solely with more of the latter is a bit eggs in one basket. The Armada's website page for its LHD Juan Carlos I describes it as having the "Capability for up to 30 medium and heavy helicopters for amphibious operations or 10/12 F-35B or AV-8B+ and similar number of helicopters in her aircraft-carrier configuration." So it's pretty clear what the FLOAN wants/needs if it is to carry on fixed wing operations.
However I thought the NGF to be developed under FCAS was planned to replace some, if not all, of the EF-18s. So, is this to prevent a capability gap between c.2030 and the 2040s or a public expresion of a lack of faith in FCAS delivering? Or a desire for a proven technology that, assuming they go for a common B model procurement, one assumes will benefit from USMC/RAF etc. future enhancements.
However I thought the NGF to be developed under FCAS was planned to replace some, if not all, of the EF-18s. So, is this to prevent a capability gap between c.2030 and the 2040s or a public expresion of a lack of faith in FCAS delivering? Or a desire for a proven technology that, assuming they go for a common B model procurement, one assumes will benefit from USMC/RAF etc. future enhancements.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Here's a solution:
Buy our Tr 1 cabs at a silly knockdown price from a clueless MoD
then do this:
https://www.eurofighter.com/news-and...nish-air-force
Remembering not to tell them that they are not airworthy and unfit for purpose
Buy our Tr 1 cabs at a silly knockdown price from a clueless MoD
then do this:
https://www.eurofighter.com/news-and...nish-air-force
Remembering not to tell them that they are not airworthy and unfit for purpose
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Spain requested for fifty Lightning IIs [RFI] 04 Nov 2021
“The Spanish government officially filed a Request for Information (RFI) for fifty Lockheed Martin Lightning IIs. The request is for 25 conventional take-off and land-ing (CTOL) F-35As for the Ejército del Aire (EdA, Spanish Air Force) and 25 short take-off and vertical-landing (STOVL) F-35Bs for the Armada (Spanish Navy). The first deliveries are expected in 2027.
Whilst the F-35Bs will replace the EAV-8B Matadors with Eslla 009 at Rota, the F-35As are reported to replace the F-18 Hornet. The Harriers, currently eleven in the active inventory, are scheduled to be withdrawn from use from 2028.
It has not been reported which EF-18M/BM unit will be replaced with the F-35A Lightning II. Ala 12 at Torrejón AB and Ala 15 at Zaragoza AB both operate the EF-18M/BM Hornet, of which 64 are still operational. The F/A-18A+ Hornets of 462 Escuadrón at Gando AB (Gran Canaria) are due to be replaced by new Eurofighters. The unit has 19 Hornets in their active inventory.
Scramble Magazine wrote on 21 October 2020 on the latest Spanish Defence initiatives. Within this initiative, the EdA is considering a mix of the Eurofighter LTE (Long Term Evolution, the latest version) and a new fifth-generation fighter. Likely candidates for the second fighter were the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the Lockheed F-35 Lightning II. Selection of the F-35 was noted as interesting in view of the future replacement of the EAV-8B Matadors of the Armada.”
https://www.scramble.nl/military-new...-lightning-iis
“The Spanish government officially filed a Request for Information (RFI) for fifty Lockheed Martin Lightning IIs. The request is for 25 conventional take-off and land-ing (CTOL) F-35As for the Ejército del Aire (EdA, Spanish Air Force) and 25 short take-off and vertical-landing (STOVL) F-35Bs for the Armada (Spanish Navy). The first deliveries are expected in 2027.
Whilst the F-35Bs will replace the EAV-8B Matadors with Eslla 009 at Rota, the F-35As are reported to replace the F-18 Hornet. The Harriers, currently eleven in the active inventory, are scheduled to be withdrawn from use from 2028.
It has not been reported which EF-18M/BM unit will be replaced with the F-35A Lightning II. Ala 12 at Torrejón AB and Ala 15 at Zaragoza AB both operate the EF-18M/BM Hornet, of which 64 are still operational. The F/A-18A+ Hornets of 462 Escuadrón at Gando AB (Gran Canaria) are due to be replaced by new Eurofighters. The unit has 19 Hornets in their active inventory.
Scramble Magazine wrote on 21 October 2020 on the latest Spanish Defence initiatives. Within this initiative, the EdA is considering a mix of the Eurofighter LTE (Long Term Evolution, the latest version) and a new fifth-generation fighter. Likely candidates for the second fighter were the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the Lockheed F-35 Lightning II. Selection of the F-35 was noted as interesting in view of the future replacement of the EAV-8B Matadors of the Armada.”
https://www.scramble.nl/military-new...-lightning-iis
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Spain has no plans to buy U.S. F35 fighters, defence ministry says 09 Nov 2021 [I dunno]
https://www.reuters.com/world/spain-...ys-2021-11-09/
"MADRID, Nov 9 (Reuters) - Spain has no plans to buy F35 fighter planes from the United States and remains committed to the European FCAS fighter programme, a defence ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
A report on Nov. 4 in the French business magazine Challenges, citing an analyst at the defence specialist magazine Jane's, suggested Spain may be interested in buying the F35 fighter from the United States.
However, Spain said it was fully committed to the Franco-German-Spanish FCAS fighter plane project.
"The Spanish government has no budget to enter into any other jet project in addition to the one that is already in place. We rule out entering the F35 project. Our investment commitment is in the FCAS," the defence ministry spokeswoman told Reuters."
https://www.reuters.com/world/spain-...ys-2021-11-09/
"MADRID, Nov 9 (Reuters) - Spain has no plans to buy F35 fighter planes from the United States and remains committed to the European FCAS fighter programme, a defence ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
A report on Nov. 4 in the French business magazine Challenges, citing an analyst at the defence specialist magazine Jane's, suggested Spain may be interested in buying the F35 fighter from the United States.
However, Spain said it was fully committed to the Franco-German-Spanish FCAS fighter plane project.
"The Spanish government has no budget to enter into any other jet project in addition to the one that is already in place. We rule out entering the F35 project. Our investment commitment is in the FCAS," the defence ministry spokeswoman told Reuters."
Spain has no plans to buy U.S. F35 fighters, defence ministry says 09 Nov 2021 [I dunno]
https://www.reuters.com/world/spain-...ys-2021-11-09/
"MADRID, Nov 9 (Reuters) - Spain has no plans to buy F35 fighter planes from the United States and remains committed to the European FCAS fighter programme, a defence ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
A report on Nov. 4 in the French business magazine Challenges, citing an analyst at the defence specialist magazine Jane's, suggested Spain may be interested in buying the F35 fighter from the United States.
However, Spain said it was fully committed to the Franco-German-Spanish FCAS fighter plane project.
"The Spanish government has no budget to enter into any other jet project in addition to the one that is already in place. We rule out entering the F35 project. Our investment commitment is in the FCAS," the defence ministry spokeswoman told Reuters."
https://www.reuters.com/world/spain-...ys-2021-11-09/
"MADRID, Nov 9 (Reuters) - Spain has no plans to buy F35 fighter planes from the United States and remains committed to the European FCAS fighter programme, a defence ministry spokeswoman said on Tuesday.
A report on Nov. 4 in the French business magazine Challenges, citing an analyst at the defence specialist magazine Jane's, suggested Spain may be interested in buying the F35 fighter from the United States.
However, Spain said it was fully committed to the Franco-German-Spanish FCAS fighter plane project.
"The Spanish government has no budget to enter into any other jet project in addition to the one that is already in place. We rule out entering the F35 project. Our investment commitment is in the FCAS," the defence ministry spokeswoman told Reuters."
The Spanish Govt has a lot more on it's mind than defence issues right now - I wouldn't trust any statement from anyone...............
So Admiral González Gómez's visit to the F-35 Joint Program Office in August, where he met the man in charge of the DoD and FMS F-35 procurement, was purely a matter of courtesy and his government had absolutely no interest in acquiring the F-35, even just Bs to replace FLOANs VA-2 Matador IIs (aka EAV-8B). ¡Lo siento, no estoy convencido señoras y señores!
"The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement."
https://www.dvidshub.net/image/67664...visit-f-35-jpo
Lt. Gen. Eric Fick, F-35 Joint Program Executive Officer, and Adm. Santiago González Gómez, National Armament Director for Spain, exchange greetings during a meeting at the program headquarters in Arlington, Va. The F-35 Joint Program Office is the Department of Defense's focal point for the 5th generation strike aircraft for the Navy, Air Force, Marines, and our allies. The F-35 is the premier multi-mission, 5th generation weapon system. Its ability to collect, analyze and share data is a force multiplier that enhances all assets in the battle-space: with stealth technology, advanced sensors, weapons capacity, and range. The F-35, which has been operational since July of 2015, is the most lethal, survivable, and interoperable fighter aircraft ever built.
https://www.dvidshub.net/image/67664...visit-f-35-jpo
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Mil-26Man
Asturias56
If I may offer something less inflammatory, in terms of what we are seeing here.
Perhaps the Spanish MoD are doing their due diligence and making sure that they have more than one option to replace their fleets as their current aircraft get longer in the tooth.
Having more than one option may offer them leverage as they negotiate a package at a good price from any source.
With that said, beamr raises a valid point that must be considered in any expenditure of the size you'd expect when there are substantial aircraft purchases:
When an MoD makes, or wants to make, large item purchases there are always political factors involved along the way regardless of whatever is ultimately decided.
They're lying. France turning the screw in the same way they did for Germany when it said it wanted the F-35.
The Spanish Govt has a lot more on it's mind than defence issues right now - I wouldn't trust any statement from anyone...
Perhaps the Spanish MoD are doing their due diligence and making sure that they have more than one option to replace their fleets as their current aircraft get longer in the tooth.
Having more than one option may offer them leverage as they negotiate a package at a good price from any source.
With that said, beamr raises a valid point that must be considered in any expenditure of the size you'd expect when there are substantial aircraft purchases:
Typhoon is part Spanish, so they are supporting their own industry.
