Temora Museum Vampire Engine Fire In Flight Recently
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Eleven years ago there was this thread & replies: https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-401005.html
'Fareastdriver' 6th Jan 2010, 10:45 "In the days when R/R Dewents were used to power Meteors, aircraft were quite handy. A couple of Vampires positioned by tractors could blow of a fair amount of snow. IIRC we cleared a one aircraft wide strip on Oakington's runway in a day from 3 inches. In the V Force days it was imperative for the runway to be clear enough for our nuclear deterent to get airborne. The MRD was invented for that. To many aircraft tugs were being overturned by Victors when the pilot was a bit clumsy on the throttles...."
&
'Thunderguts' 6th Jan 2010, 15:34 "Winter of 62/63 RAF Oakington. The 'staish' had the bright idea of getting us students out on the runway with shovels, to help the bowsers with their snowploughs. After two days hard work, there was not a lot to show for our efforts. However the boss had 'a cunning plan'! Vampires had a downward pointing jet efflux, therefore much better to use them than the non existant MRD. So up and down the runway went a series of T11's which turned the snow into slush and water, which promptly froze! So we now had a five thousand foot skating rink. Never did finish the flying course, got my wings early in a sort of parade in the mess anteroom. As an afterthought was an MRD called a 'sicart'? Happy days"
&
'India69' 7th Jan 2010, 18:31 "Shawbury,late 60's early 70's; 3 vamp engines ? abreast, towed along did the trick, but the noise was terrible."
'Fareastdriver' 6th Jan 2010, 10:45 "In the days when R/R Dewents were used to power Meteors, aircraft were quite handy. A couple of Vampires positioned by tractors could blow of a fair amount of snow. IIRC we cleared a one aircraft wide strip on Oakington's runway in a day from 3 inches. In the V Force days it was imperative for the runway to be clear enough for our nuclear deterent to get airborne. The MRD was invented for that. To many aircraft tugs were being overturned by Victors when the pilot was a bit clumsy on the throttles...."
&
'Thunderguts' 6th Jan 2010, 15:34 "Winter of 62/63 RAF Oakington. The 'staish' had the bright idea of getting us students out on the runway with shovels, to help the bowsers with their snowploughs. After two days hard work, there was not a lot to show for our efforts. However the boss had 'a cunning plan'! Vampires had a downward pointing jet efflux, therefore much better to use them than the non existant MRD. So up and down the runway went a series of T11's which turned the snow into slush and water, which promptly froze! So we now had a five thousand foot skating rink. Never did finish the flying course, got my wings early in a sort of parade in the mess anteroom. As an afterthought was an MRD called a 'sicart'? Happy days"
&
'India69' 7th Jan 2010, 18:31 "Shawbury,late 60's early 70's; 3 vamp engines ? abreast, towed along did the trick, but the noise was terrible."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 30th Oct 2021 at 23:07. Reason: add text
From a posting by 'baloffski'on 'Key Aero' some 10 years ago:
I can confirm that the Cottesmore MRD in the mid eighties was a pair of Derwents and I hated and feared running them in equal proportions. Sat in a 'garden shed' between two ancient jets was no picnic and even though you had massive heat sources within arms length, piggin' cold!!
It seemed like every winter the 1600 hrs Tannoy message across the station only changed from Blacktop Standdown to 2 hours notice only ever occured when I was duty MRD Bod. I was called out for real three times and sat in my shed for 4 hour stints was no fun. Even the delight in burning Bowser clutches out for an early knock off lost its sparkle when the MTO threatened to charge the driver and the operator the next time it happened.
We were never allowed on tarmac because it would be a molten mass at the far end of the runway by the time we finished. We even had to be careful on concrete as it was easy to blow the bitumen filleting out.
They were decommissioned in about '89 I think and I seem to recall the lads in Prop Flight sectioned at least one Derwent for display and I think another was painted and chromed also for display.
It seemed like every winter the 1600 hrs Tannoy message across the station only changed from Blacktop Standdown to 2 hours notice only ever occured when I was duty MRD Bod. I was called out for real three times and sat in my shed for 4 hour stints was no fun. Even the delight in burning Bowser clutches out for an early knock off lost its sparkle when the MTO threatened to charge the driver and the operator the next time it happened.
We were never allowed on tarmac because it would be a molten mass at the far end of the runway by the time we finished. We even had to be careful on concrete as it was easy to blow the bitumen filleting out.
They were decommissioned in about '89 I think and I seem to recall the lads in Prop Flight sectioned at least one Derwent for display and I think another was painted and chromed also for display.
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I’m sure the ones at Brize had both but it might be brain fade.
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I recall being told by one of my Hunter QFIs that back when he was on his first squadron, the Meteor 8 wasn't long out of service. When the Hunters were grounded by snow, it wasn't unknown for some joker to ask around the crewroom "Do any of you chaps have any Meteor time?". Those who weren't wise to this gotcha would say "Yes" - only to be invited to man the MRD with its double Derwents!
Interesting. I have my T11, Goblin 3, pilots notes from the last course at Swinderby.
On the limitations page it gives max rpm 10,750 but in RAF use 10,650 ,(slight differences for the RN !) BUT with caveat that operation at speeds be tween 8,150 and 8,650 and 10,500 must be kept to an absolute minimum.
Other limits are intermediate at 10,350, 660 jpt.
Also stated is that above 25,000 feet max rom is limited to 10,350 !
My notes are 4th edition dated Jan 1960 as amended with AL 3, and as issued to us all at 8 FTS in October 1963 !
On the limitations page it gives max rpm 10,750 but in RAF use 10,650 ,(slight differences for the RN !) BUT with caveat that operation at speeds be tween 8,150 and 8,650 and 10,500 must be kept to an absolute minimum.
Other limits are intermediate at 10,350, 660 jpt.
Also stated is that above 25,000 feet max rom is limited to 10,350 !
My notes are 4th edition dated Jan 1960 as amended with AL 3, and as issued to us all at 8 FTS in October 1963 !
Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 31st Oct 2021 at 12:33.
Originally Posted by SpazSinbad;
. As an afterthought was an MRD called a 'sicart'?
A Sicard is a different beast..... Powered brushes that swept snow to a blower that pushed it up a chimney so a stream of snow would be blown clear of the operating surfaces..
I seem to recall that by the time the runway, taxiways, dispersals and hangar access were clear, snow would have thawed anyway.
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 12th Nov 2021 at 01:04. Reason: Fix quote
KenThere were different marks of Goblin in the UK and Australian Vampires. The posts above show the Goblin 35 for Australia; those I flew had the Goblin 3.
"I flew the RAF's T11 in training at Valley in 1962-63, and have a .pdf copy of the Pilots' Notes, dated 1960, and showing amendments incorporated in 1970. As the only Vampires in use after about 1965 were those (maybe only one?) retained at CFS, I doubt that there were major changes during the 60s.
The bands of RPM to avoid are listed as 8150-8650, and a spot speed of 10500 rpm. This is as I dimly recall from those distant days. The severe warning highlighted at post #6 is not shown, nor are the rpm bands below that warning. The different variants obviously had different characteristics. But.......but.......... why did the higher mark number have the worse behaviour? Was it actually a renumbered earlier variant? We need someone with much more knowledge of the DH Goblin than I have, to answer that."
There were still quite a few T11s used for training Iraqis at Leeming in July 1967 when I arrived there. The flight was commanded by the estimable Reg Drown, a fellow Janner. After about 6 months the flight moved to Swinderby, sadly before I could scrounge a trip. I've no idea how long they operated from Swinderby.
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"I flew the RAF's T11 in training at Valley in 1962-63, and have a .pdf copy of the Pilots' Notes, dated 1960, and showing amendments incorporated in 1970. As the only Vampires in use after about 1965 were those (maybe only one?) retained at CFS, I doubt that there were major changes during the 60s.
The bands of RPM to avoid are listed as 8150-8650, and a spot speed of 10500 rpm. This is as I dimly recall from those distant days. The severe warning highlighted at post #6 is not shown, nor are the rpm bands below that warning. The different variants obviously had different characteristics. But.......but.......... why did the higher mark number have the worse behaviour? Was it actually a renumbered earlier variant? We need someone with much more knowledge of the DH Goblin than I have, to answer that."
There were still quite a few T11s used for training Iraqis at Leeming in July 1967 when I arrived there. The flight was commanded by the estimable Reg Drown, a fellow Janner. After about 6 months the flight moved to Swinderby, sadly before I could scrounge a trip. I've no idea how long they operated from Swinderby.
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For some reason the RAAF Marks started by adding 30 to the equivalent British mark number. No idea why.
The Goblin could be a leaky beast and I remember during my training seeing one torch alarmingly on start up. Fair put the wind up all who beheld the sight! Fortunately no one was harmed.
The Goblin could be a leaky beast and I remember during my training seeing one torch alarmingly on start up. Fair put the wind up all who beheld the sight! Fortunately no one was harmed.
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Wasn’t that the reason you could recognise Vampire Groundcrew as they used their berets to beat out the flames on the tail planes at start up.
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Last edited by NutLoose; 1st Nov 2021 at 03:15.
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An RAAF Vampire in ‘F-35B STOVL’ Mode RAAF Laverton 20 July 1991 
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...amplav1ll1.jpg [does seem to be there anymore]
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Common start up flames - especially if a slight tailwind - in a strong tailwind bad juju for GOBLIN engine start, best to turn aircraft into wind.
de Havilland Vampire Startup doing Fire Flames
de Havilland Vampire Startup doing Fire Flames
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Brakedwell - would you be able to tell me any more about your time on the Vamp course?
I have all of half an hour on a T.11 (earlier this year)....
I believe an initial eight-week appraisal of the production T.11 declared “ the only condition in which the aircraft’s behaviour is unpleasant (although not dangerous) is the spin”....
Would you be able to tell me a bit more about your experiences with her? I'd love to hear more.
Would you fancy having a chat about your time on the T.11? I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who trained on her.
I've only got all of half an hour (but it was the best half an hour's flying I've yet done!)
I have all of half an hour on a T.11 (earlier this year)....
I believe an initial eight-week appraisal of the production T.11 declared “ the only condition in which the aircraft’s behaviour is unpleasant (although not dangerous) is the spin”....
Would you be able to tell me a bit more about your experiences with her? I'd love to hear more.
Would you fancy having a chat about your time on the T.11? I'd be really interested in hearing from someone who trained on her.
I've only got all of half an hour (but it was the best half an hour's flying I've yet done!)
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FREE - VAMPIRE T-11 Pilot Notes 4th Edition January 1960 PDF 7.3Mb
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attach...11-pdf.565983/
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Story about flying in T-11 Vampire in UK Feb 2021 INTERLUDE with a VAMPIRE from PILOT Magazine
[for moment cannot upload 11Mb PDF with some msg about 'token missing' so "I MAY BE SOME TIME"]
Got down to about 7.5Mb PDF File Size but 'story' would not upload. :-(
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attach...11-pdf.565983/
_______________________________
Story about flying in T-11 Vampire in UK Feb 2021 INTERLUDE with a VAMPIRE from PILOT Magazine
[for moment cannot upload 11Mb PDF with some msg about 'token missing' so "I MAY BE SOME TIME"]
Got down to about 7.5Mb PDF File Size but 'story' would not upload. :-(
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 12th Nov 2021 at 05:25. Reason: FREE + add PDF
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Another T-11 in UK Vampire story 'Keeping the Flame Alive' [you betcha] from FLYPAST Jul 2018 PDF 6 pages attached (1.3Mb). FLAMIN' Vamp Start JPG added.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 12th Nov 2021 at 06:12. Reason: + JPG T-11 Panel & INFLIGHT? + Flamin' start
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Reduced file size (just readable text) of 10 page PDF above reprinted etc to 5 pages (side by side).
Story about flying in T-11 Vampire in UK Feb 2021 INTERLUDE with a VAMPIRE from PILOT Magazine
Story about flying in T-11 Vampire in UK Feb 2021 INTERLUDE with a VAMPIRE from PILOT Magazine
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 12th Nov 2021 at 07:49. Reason: Make readable first page + txt title
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I'd love to hear more from anyone who flew the Vamp - I'm currently trying to compile some accounts and tell her story with the help of those who were there.
As freelance journalism goes, to call it an obsession may be putting it mildly at this point, but I'm absolutely adamant the Vampire is every bit as important as the Hunter and Canberra books out there...
If anyone would care to drop me an email at [email protected] I'd be very grateful indeed
As freelance journalism goes, to call it an obsession may be putting it mildly at this point, but I'm absolutely adamant the Vampire is every bit as important as the Hunter and Canberra books out there...
If anyone would care to drop me an email at [email protected] I'd be very grateful indeed