US Nuclear sub has hit an unknown object in the South China sea
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Can any ex-submariners explain how, if the boat hit an uncharted seamount, the crew or Commander might be held responsible?
If I understand this correctly, if the boat isn't pinging with active sonar - it can't actually `see' any objects in front of it, and is entirely reliant on it's INS and the accuracy of existing charts to know where it is - right?
If I understand this correctly, if the boat isn't pinging with active sonar - it can't actually `see' any objects in front of it, and is entirely reliant on it's INS and the accuracy of existing charts to know where it is - right?
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portsmouth
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Originally Posted by tartare
Can any ex-submariners explain how, if the boat hit an uncharted seamount, the crew or Commander might be held responsible?
If I understand this correctly, if the boat isn't pinging with active sonar - it can't actually `see' any objects in front of it, and is entirely reliant on it's INS and the accuracy of existing charts to know where it is - right?
If I understand this correctly, if the boat isn't pinging with active sonar - it can't actually `see' any objects in front of it, and is entirely reliant on it's INS and the accuracy of existing charts to know where it is - right?
We had a similar incident with HMS Superb in 2008. I've seen the damage - not public domain - and it made a mess of the forward free-flood spaces. In that case the CO mis read the chart.
Suspicion breeds confidence
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
Correct - but with the proviso that course/speed/depth selection should be appropriate for the level of accuracy and age of the chart.
We had a similar incident with HMS Superb in 2008. I've seen the damage - not public domain - and it made a mess of the forward free-flood spaces. In that case the CO mis read the chart.
We had a similar incident with HMS Superb in 2008. I've seen the damage - not public domain - and it made a mess of the forward free-flood spaces. In that case the CO mis read the chart.
Last edited by Navaleye; 3rd Nov 2021 at 13:21.
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Originally Posted by tartare
Can any ex-submariners explain how, if the boat hit an uncharted seamount, the crew or Commander might be held responsible?
If I understand this correctly, if the boat isn't pinging with active sonar - it can't actually `see' any objects in front of it, and is entirely reliant on it's INS and the accuracy of existing charts to know where it is - right?
If I understand this correctly, if the boat isn't pinging with active sonar - it can't actually `see' any objects in front of it, and is entirely reliant on it's INS and the accuracy of existing charts to know where it is - right?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 676
Originally Posted by Herod
Ninthace I was going to suggest a big window in the front, and a whacking great headlight.. 
Better idea and cheaper than cutting a window. Two glass bow caps, a nob off powerful searchlight in one tube and a scuttle in the rear door of the other tube to squint through. I leave the details to the spanner jockeys, I am more of an ideas man.
If that is too dear, what about a long white stick bolted to the front end?
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Hmm - a searchlight.
Noting that you're joking (?) as someone who knows very little about submarine warfare, I assume that any emitted radiation - even frequency hopping - of any strength and spectra is probably pretty good at broadcasting one's position, visible light, LIDAR, same issue, and infrared.
If `seeing' ahead underwater without giving away one's position was possible, shirley someone would have done so by now...?
Recc - the passive fathometer stuff is intriguing.
Knowing a little about passive radar in the aviation world, I presume at the depths most submarines are at, there is not enough biologic or ambient noise to provide any sort of passive `image' of what is ahead.
Advice from those who know more appreciated.
Interested to read too about how out of date some charts still are.
I had assumed that areas of interest such as the South China Sea were mapped and know to the millimetre - but clearly not so!
This whole business of underwater navigation is fascinating stuff.
Noting that you're joking (?) as someone who knows very little about submarine warfare, I assume that any emitted radiation - even frequency hopping - of any strength and spectra is probably pretty good at broadcasting one's position, visible light, LIDAR, same issue, and infrared.
If `seeing' ahead underwater without giving away one's position was possible, shirley someone would have done so by now...?
Recc - the passive fathometer stuff is intriguing.
Knowing a little about passive radar in the aviation world, I presume at the depths most submarines are at, there is not enough biologic or ambient noise to provide any sort of passive `image' of what is ahead.
Advice from those who know more appreciated.
Interested to read too about how out of date some charts still are.
I had assumed that areas of interest such as the South China Sea were mapped and know to the millimetre - but clearly not so!
This whole business of underwater navigation is fascinating stuff.
Last edited by tartare; 4th Nov 2021 at 02:04.
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Originally Posted by Herod
Ninthace I was going to suggest a big window in the front, and a whacking great headlight..
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Over the hills and far away
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Herod
Ninthace I was going to suggest a big window in the front, and a whacking great headlight..
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A better place.
Posts: 2,130
Originally Posted by Radley
It was good enough for the ‘Seaview’ in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, and that was real. Well it was on the tele.
Especially the flying subs!
The transparent-hull "window-section" bow of Seaview was not rounded like a traditional submarine but was faired into a pair of manta winglike, stationary bow planes (in addition to her more conventional sail planes). This was added after the original B-29-like front with twelve pairs of windows on two levels was modified for "Freudian anatomically analogous issues."
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
I would sack the for'ard lookout.
Mount a PNG camera on the front and a screen inside or some of those car reversing aid jobbies that detect walls etc..
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
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As expected, CO, XO & COB all relieved for "Loss of confidence"
USS Connecticut CO, XO, COB Relieved Over Collision in South China Sea ‘Due to Loss of Confidence’ - USNI News
USS Connecticut CO, XO, COB Relieved Over Collision in South China Sea ‘Due to Loss of Confidence’ - USNI News
short flights long nights
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Originally Posted by RAFEngO74to09
As expected, CO, XO & COB all relieved for "Loss of confidence"
USS Connecticut CO, XO, COB Relieved Over Collision in South China Sea ‘Due to Loss of Confidence’ - USNI News
USS Connecticut CO, XO, COB Relieved Over Collision in South China Sea ‘Due to Loss of Confidence’ - USNI News
Tea and no biscuits?
Thread Starter
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More on the incident, its arrived safely at port.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/04/a...dst/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/04/a...dst/index.html
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Officially, in which direction does this ‘loss of confidence’ flow? Downwards from Fleet Command, who could have lost a submarine, or upwards from the rest of the crew, who probably didn’t enjoy having their boat rammed into a mountain.
