Fun when I was a student...
Thread Starter
Fun when I was a student...
On an IF trip in the MB 326H Macchi, the student is in the back seat, with screens covering the canopy and no outside reference. Thus, the student couldn't land the aircraft, and the instructor would take over at the end of the flight and get Bloggs to peel back the screen between the two seats so he can see forward, usually to see the runway miles off to one side because he fouled up the approach.
On this particular day it had all turned to ****, and my instructor, "Beach Ball", took over to return to Pearce from Gin Gin, the satellite airfield 15 miles north. I knew the flight had been dismal, and as we whizzed in from the initial point at 250 knots, I thought that if I was going to have a bad day, Beach Bum would too. So I pulled the throttle back to idle and said "Practice!", the term for a simulated engine failure.
Ray's initial response was "You ******* little smartarse! I'll show you!", and zoomed to height to resume the glide profile of 150 knots, half speed-brake to simulate a windmilling engine, looking for a high key position abeam the threshold at 2500'. But from our position on initial run-in, all he could hope for was a dog-leg to wash off some height and then a straight-in approach. Well, he missed that dog-leg, lost too much height and speed, and would have crashed well short of the runway, so he had to power up to complete the landing.
Not much was said about that one in the debrief.
On this particular day it had all turned to ****, and my instructor, "Beach Ball", took over to return to Pearce from Gin Gin, the satellite airfield 15 miles north. I knew the flight had been dismal, and as we whizzed in from the initial point at 250 knots, I thought that if I was going to have a bad day, Beach Bum would too. So I pulled the throttle back to idle and said "Practice!", the term for a simulated engine failure.
Ray's initial response was "You ******* little smartarse! I'll show you!", and zoomed to height to resume the glide profile of 150 knots, half speed-brake to simulate a windmilling engine, looking for a high key position abeam the threshold at 2500'. But from our position on initial run-in, all he could hope for was a dog-leg to wash off some height and then a straight-in approach. Well, he missed that dog-leg, lost too much height and speed, and would have crashed well short of the runway, so he had to power up to complete the landing.
Not much was said about that one in the debrief.
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There is a film clip online also: https://www.navy.gov.au/biography/li...d-john-godfrey
S2E Tracker Approach HMAS Melbourne to Carrier Landing
S2E Tracker Approach HMAS Melbourne to Carrier Landing
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 22nd Sep 2021 at 06:29. Reason: add fillum
AC
So let me get this straight. You were a student and you gave your instructor a simulated engine failure to p1ss him off?
How did that work out for you in the end?
BV
How did that work out for you in the end?
BV
In my early days as a Gliding Instructor I can remember teaching cable breaks (simulated by pulling the release cable!)...after the various demos and practice, we then told the students they can expect them at any time..and obviously without warning!
So the plan was to go back to circuit bashing and leave it a few launches to settle them back into circuits before commencing the 'fun' of pulling their first simulated cable break.
..however, on this day my Student obviously thought he would help and pulled his own on the very next launch! .... now as an instructor you should always be prepared for a cable break...but that caught me completely by surprise and I must admit I was chuckling to myself as (IIRC) he made an ok job of it.
....Lesson learned to make sure the Student knows and understands the rules in future!
So the plan was to go back to circuit bashing and leave it a few launches to settle them back into circuits before commencing the 'fun' of pulling their first simulated cable break.
..however, on this day my Student obviously thought he would help and pulled his own on the very next launch! .... now as an instructor you should always be prepared for a cable break...but that caught me completely by surprise and I must admit I was chuckling to myself as (IIRC) he made an ok job of it.
....Lesson learned to make sure the Student knows and understands the rules in future!
When I was learning to glide, I could always predict the simulated cable break by watching my release handle, as it'd move ever so slightly when the instructor put his hand on his handle in preparation for pulling it a few seconds later :-)
At my PPL exam (check ride), I got a simulated engine failure, did everything right, and we then aborted the landing really late, at around 100 ft, right above a farmhouse. Afterwards, at safe altitude, as usual, I announced that I was going to clean up the plane (flaps back in, carb heat back off, etcetera). When I got to the electrical backup fuel pump and clicked it back off, the examiner pulled the throttle to idle without saying anything. I then went through the checklist again, and when I clicked the fuel pump on, power came back. It was the fuel pump, stupid ! I urged the flight school to change procedures, so people would be prepared for such, but they said it was impossible to predict in such detail what each examiner expected to happen or not happen during a check ride.
At my PPL exam (check ride), I got a simulated engine failure, did everything right, and we then aborted the landing really late, at around 100 ft, right above a farmhouse. Afterwards, at safe altitude, as usual, I announced that I was going to clean up the plane (flaps back in, carb heat back off, etcetera). When I got to the electrical backup fuel pump and clicked it back off, the examiner pulled the throttle to idle without saying anything. I then went through the checklist again, and when I clicked the fuel pump on, power came back. It was the fuel pump, stupid ! I urged the flight school to change procedures, so people would be prepared for such, but they said it was impossible to predict in such detail what each examiner expected to happen or not happen during a check ride.
Thread Starter
Ray and I got along quite well, he knew my brother from Vietnam, and he had the down-to-earth (!) attitude that somebody from below decks carries with them. My previous instructor was Magilla, so I was rather relieved to be with Beach Ball.
A few years when I was doing a biannual check on a well-known pilot in a Yak 52. I as usual made a little preparation for the unexpected.
It was autumn time and I had checked with a local strip that we could land there if we needed to.
Obviously the trip had gone well and I had got the unknowing pilot into a position where we could safely land off a practice engine failure should he spot the previously mentioned strip.
And that’s exactly what happened......
He spotted the strip, positioned for a PFL and then opened up for the go-around and nothing happened ! Immediately he selected flaps up, delayed the gear extension and we landed quietly, and flapless, on the 600 metre runway. There was no one else around so we waited for 10 minutes, started up with no problems, did a full power check and returned to our base airfield.
Yep, you got it in one.
Autumn - cold - damp - high humidity - little carb ice prevention/clearance with appropriate selection on a YAK 52/M14P engine in the glide, even with regular engine warming.
Moral - never assume...........
PS. I wouldn’t have dared to “fail” an engine on any of my instructors. Arrogance ? How the world has changed.
It was autumn time and I had checked with a local strip that we could land there if we needed to.
Obviously the trip had gone well and I had got the unknowing pilot into a position where we could safely land off a practice engine failure should he spot the previously mentioned strip.
And that’s exactly what happened......
He spotted the strip, positioned for a PFL and then opened up for the go-around and nothing happened ! Immediately he selected flaps up, delayed the gear extension and we landed quietly, and flapless, on the 600 metre runway. There was no one else around so we waited for 10 minutes, started up with no problems, did a full power check and returned to our base airfield.
Yep, you got it in one.
Autumn - cold - damp - high humidity - little carb ice prevention/clearance with appropriate selection on a YAK 52/M14P engine in the glide, even with regular engine warming.
Moral - never assume...........
PS. I wouldn’t have dared to “fail” an engine on any of my instructors. Arrogance ? How the world has changed.
Last edited by Sleeve Wing; 22nd Sep 2021 at 14:23.
I do hope Magilla is still with us. He stayed a weekend at my cottage in Waddington village (he was doing a course at Manby) - kept hitting his head on the low beams and called my baby son, now 52, "Red Leader"!
A few years when I was doing a biannual check on a well-known pilot in a Yak 52. I as usual made a little preparation for the unexpected.
It was autumn time and I had checked with a local strip that we could land there if we needed to.
Obviously the trip had gone well and I had got the unknowing pilot into a position where we could safely land off a practice engine failure should he spot the previously mentioned strip.
And that’s exactly what happened......
He spotted the strip, positioned for a PFL and then opened up for the go-around and nothing happened ! Immediately he selected flaps up, delayed the gear extension and we landed quietly, and flapless, on the 600 metre runway. There was no one else around so we waited for 10 minutes, started up with no problems, did a full power check and returned to our base airfield.
Yep, you got it in one.
Autumn - cold - damp - high humidity - little carb ice prevention/clearance with appropriate selection on a YAK 52/M14P engine in the glide, even with regular engine warming.
Moral - never assume...........
PS. I wouldn’t have dared to “fail” an engine on any of my instructors. Arrogance ? How the world has changed.
It was autumn time and I had checked with a local strip that we could land there if we needed to.
Obviously the trip had gone well and I had got the unknowing pilot into a position where we could safely land off a practice engine failure should he spot the previously mentioned strip.
And that’s exactly what happened......
He spotted the strip, positioned for a PFL and then opened up for the go-around and nothing happened ! Immediately he selected flaps up, delayed the gear extension and we landed quietly, and flapless, on the 600 metre runway. There was no one else around so we waited for 10 minutes, started up with no problems, did a full power check and returned to our base airfield.
Yep, you got it in one.
Autumn - cold - damp - high humidity - little carb ice prevention/clearance with appropriate selection on a YAK 52/M14P engine in the glide, even with regular engine warming.
Moral - never assume...........
PS. I wouldn’t have dared to “fail” an engine on any of my instructors. Arrogance ? How the world has changed.
Good intro to the Yak for said TP!
Apologies for the drift.
Mog
PS. I wouldn’t have dared to “fail” an engine on any of my instructors. Arrogance ? How the world has changed.
I did once have a mate, in the RAF, whose glittering prospects as an RN Sea King pilot came to an abrupt end when he panned his instructor following an unfortunate misunderstanding over the position of the undercarriage.
Thread Starter
Jack, as stated above, BB was mates with my brother, and we got along rather well. I had been having a poor flight, and he showed that he, too, could have a bad result from a PFL.
Lighten up, Francis.
Lighten up, Francis.
Thread Starter
One of my coursemates was also on an IF trip, under the Macchi hood, with the last approach being an NDB into Gin Gin. It starts at 20,000' and the MDA is 1100'. Bloggs was under some pressure to get it right, and was a bit rushed as he started the outbound leg and descent, idle / speedbrake / 220kt. Done his 2 minutes, turn to intercept inbound track, oops, here's 1100', level off, must not descend below it, that's an instant failure. Track to overhead the Gin Gin NDB.
Instructor takes over, Bloggs relaxes a little, until instructor rolls inverted and starts a pull-through. Bloggs thinks he is about to die, you can't do that from 1100', and reaches for the seat pan handle. Hang on, he won't intentionally kill me, wait and see what happens. Then the realisation that he had levelled out at 11,000'.
Bloggs went on to be an Air Vice Marshal.
Instructor takes over, Bloggs relaxes a little, until instructor rolls inverted and starts a pull-through. Bloggs thinks he is about to die, you can't do that from 1100', and reaches for the seat pan handle. Hang on, he won't intentionally kill me, wait and see what happens. Then the realisation that he had levelled out at 11,000'.
Bloggs went on to be an Air Vice Marshal.
Avoid imitations
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I blacked out my IRE during a limited panel UP recovery on an IRT test in a single jet. By the time he woke up I was established in the climb. He never admitted it and I still passed.
FHT Oakington , Sqn boss in RHS. Standard profile, "suspected engine failure" after take off, circuit and go around. Standard visual departure toward the March marshaling yards for general handling. Steep turns, Stall in clean configuration, went well.
"Now show me a stall in the approach configuration", I respond " this is aircraft tail letter S, Form 700 specifically prohibits stalling in the approach config". " Who is the captain of this aeroplane?, you are sir, " show me a stall in the approach configuration", "yessir". FIRAD, HASEL, FOAL,. Clearing turns, gear down, flap down, crinkly chip levers set, power reducing, high nose attitude, floppy controls etc. Rapid, violent flick to the inverted, marshaling yards now above the aircraft, nose dropping, "what are your intentions?" " I can lower the nose , gain speed, overstress the flaps, or give you control. " which do you choose?", " you have control. sir".
Recover to base, low speed handling check, land normally. Imagine my surprise to learn that I had passed. Funny old life!
"Now show me a stall in the approach configuration", I respond " this is aircraft tail letter S, Form 700 specifically prohibits stalling in the approach config". " Who is the captain of this aeroplane?, you are sir, " show me a stall in the approach configuration", "yessir". FIRAD, HASEL, FOAL,. Clearing turns, gear down, flap down, crinkly chip levers set, power reducing, high nose attitude, floppy controls etc. Rapid, violent flick to the inverted, marshaling yards now above the aircraft, nose dropping, "what are your intentions?" " I can lower the nose , gain speed, overstress the flaps, or give you control. " which do you choose?", " you have control. sir".
Recover to base, low speed handling check, land normally. Imagine my surprise to learn that I had passed. Funny old life!
Asking my IRE if he'd burned his breakfast toast on a Monday morning IRT produced a rather surprising "I HAVE CONTROL" and an immediate RTB. Not another word was exchanged.
Debriefed by OC ARW, I discovered that my Examiner had torched the AAC hot-air balloon that weekend, and was rather sensitive about it.
Debriefed by OC ARW, I discovered that my Examiner had torched the AAC hot-air balloon that weekend, and was rather sensitive about it.
On the subject of late-notice or inappropriate practice engine failures this tale is many years old but almost certainly true and I believe more or less correctly related here, though doubtless others will correct any errors.
One day the CO and Senior Pilot of a certain RN training squadron were doing mutual instructor revalidations when, at almost zero airspeed and 100ft the pilot currently flying announced,"You have control" immediately followed by "Practice engine failure, Go!" as he rolled the throttle closed. The second pilot, not wishing to have the ensuing accident occur in his hands replied "Oh no you c***, you have control!" and put both hands up in the air to reinforce his point.
The affair did not end happily as even a Whirlwind could not cope with a stunt like that and the subsequent rancour between the two crew did little to enhance their personnel files I imagine.
One day the CO and Senior Pilot of a certain RN training squadron were doing mutual instructor revalidations when, at almost zero airspeed and 100ft the pilot currently flying announced,"You have control" immediately followed by "Practice engine failure, Go!" as he rolled the throttle closed. The second pilot, not wishing to have the ensuing accident occur in his hands replied "Oh no you c***, you have control!" and put both hands up in the air to reinforce his point.
The affair did not end happily as even a Whirlwind could not cope with a stunt like that and the subsequent rancour between the two crew did little to enhance their personnel files I imagine.