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AUKUS

Old 11th Mar 2023, 13:52
  #1261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
"Long production runs over many years do not preserve design teams"

Reading Friedman's "British Frigates & Destroyers" there seems to have been no problem in grinding out dozens of studies and designs few of which were ever built. A design time is per head relatively expensive but in total hardly makes the rounding error when you start building. I suspect people move on because so little is actually built
Had you understood the context of that book, you'd also realise it was a different construct and a vastly different periodicity.

The single worst thing you can do is lose your design capability. It is incredibly difficult to reconstitute it, as most western navies, shipbuilders (including the US) are finding out.

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Old 11th Mar 2023, 16:12
  #1262 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...11-p5crae.html

"A French official told Agence France-Presse on Saturday that they still believed AUKUS was a mistake. “Regarding Australia, it was treason,” the unnamed official said."



It's ok, I got him a present. He still seems butt hurt.


Last edited by golder; 11th Mar 2023 at 16:22.
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Old 11th Mar 2023, 18:16
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So extending the Collins class out to 2036 and

According to Reuters:

Albanese says announcement on numbers Monday, "This is about jobs, including jobs in manufacturing, and Adelaide in particular will be a big beneficiary of this announcement as will Western Australia,"

"When you talk about the issue of manufacturing submarines in Australia, that's an absolute priority for us," Albanese added.

As a side thought the USN is looking for a 20% increase in its SSN fleet by 2050

I presume Oz is going to get some sort of good deal on the Virginias if they are looking to replace them from 2040?

Originally Posted by BBadanov
Yes we do - where do the Collins' names come from?
Two Admirals first to command a naval squadron in action (Collins), first Admiral born in Oz (Farncomb), an RAN VC (OS Sheean), three COs KIA (Capt Waller, Capt Dechaineux and LCdr Rankin). More deserving of commemoration that politicos IMO.

I understand the commission that gave the belated VC to Sheean recommended the names of those ex-RAN under considersation for the VC should be kept in continuous use as ship names.

Last edited by SLXOwft; 12th Mar 2023 at 10:47. Reason: spelling
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Old 11th Mar 2023, 23:58
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Originally Posted by tartare
...and a very wry suggestion on Twitter for naming at least one boat - the objective of a nuclear submarine being to disappear into the ocean.
HMAS Harold Holt.
The RAN have already shown their sense of humour, as that is the name of the underwater communication base in Exmouth!
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Old 12th Mar 2023, 05:40
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This is probably the best info so far.
It looks like secondhand Virginias as a 10-20 year gap. till the new sub.
Combined workshare

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Old 13th Mar 2023, 12:39
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Rishi Sunak has announced GBP 4.9 bn additional defence spending over two years.

'Downing Street said 3bn from the extra spending would be earmarked to support the pact (AUKUS) , along with boosting industrial infrastructure and servicing UK submarines.'

'The remaining 1.9bn will be used to replace weapons sent to Ukraine and improve the UK's munitions infrastructure.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64932951 I trust this redirects for outside UK readers
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 17:46
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My daughter would settle for some of it being spent on her quarter, no hot water or heating since Christmas and still waiting
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 19:47
  #1268 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
My daughter would settle for some of it being spent on her quarter, no hot water or heating since Christmas and still waiting
It's an important tradition that enhances capability. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I do not miss those cold showers inside of a freezing block.
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 20:08
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Its on

Last edited by rattman; 13th Mar 2023 at 20:45.
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 21:15
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Joint AUKUS Statement Joint Leaders Statement on AUKUS | The White House
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 21:59
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Er, exactly what is in this for the UK? The US sells the Australians three Virginia Class SSN's in the 2030's. The UK blows 3bn of the 5bn extra allotted to defence over the next 2 years on the ability to build an Astute replacement in the 2040's with the Australians based on a design that we were going to build anyway? So, all we get is a diluted design input to the Astute replacements and a workshare deal with the Australians and the US, thus reducing our existing build and design capability as it will now be a three way collaboration even though the new boat will only be operated by the UK and Australia and not the US.

Did the same clowns who negotiated Brexit and the NI Protocol do this one as well?
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 22:40
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Er, exactly what is in this for the UK?
A lot more than if Oz had opted purely for US boats. The UK will still build its own boats and a lot of UK supply chain including tech will go into the Oz-built boats. All the reactors and reactor housings for both UK and Oz will be built by RR in the UK and supplied as sealed units. Tremendous interoperability. There will be some additional US tech in the UK boats; and the UK boats, like the Oz boats, will utilise the US vertical launch system, which is definitely a plus. Many had predicted that it would be largely a US-Australia affair with the UK picking up scraps from the sidelines. That has not happened.
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 22:54
  #1273 (permalink)  
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Australia to join Royal Navy SSN(R) submarine programme Analysis of the implications and what SSN(R) might look like.

https://www.navylookout.com/australi...ine-programme/
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 23:24
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"Australia will become a partner in the Royal Navy’s SSN(R) submarine project. This solution was always the most likely long-term answer, given the synergy between the respective timelines."

Ok, so it is a joint design, partnership. With the UK as the lead nation. Australia isn't simply buying the sub tech and building it.
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 23:43
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So SSN(R) will be designed to use VPM's or what ever the next gen version is. The talk is that they will be targetting making VPM's in Australia as first contribution the Virginia program
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Old 13th Mar 2023, 23:56
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The ABC news this morning mentioned that there would be a continuous SSN AUKUS submarine building process at Osborne starting in early 2040’s but a short time later they said that they will be built at a drumbeat of one every 2 years (a good economical rate). But that construction rate would have the the 8th submarine completed many years before the first one is due for replacement (assuming the PWR3 reactor fuel is sufficient for in excess of 33 years) - it will be interesting how they will achieve a continuous building process!

Overall, I like this final package as the short term is covered by the acquisition of the Virginia class and, in the long term, the RAN will be getting a submarine that is up to date with the newest technology - including vertical payload tubes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-...nced/102087614


Update: During the press interview, Richard Marles said that the drumbeat would be one SSN every 3 years, not 2 years as stated by the ABC. This still leaves a gap in the continuous shipbuilding unless the number of vessels is increased to 11 - desirable, but not likely.

Last edited by Going Boeing; 14th Mar 2023 at 03:25.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 00:32
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The Collins was also be the start of continuous Sub building. That stopped at 6 and didn't even get to the planned 8. Then follow on builds. Perhaps we will get it right this time.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 00:58
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https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...14-p5crto.html

AU$50-58bn to purchase then maintain its 3 second hand Virginia class (australia uses whole life accounting)
AU$3bn they are investing in US shipyards
Australia will build 8 AUKUS class with the last 3 entering service between 2055-2065 allowing the three Virginia to be retired and maintaining a fleet of 8
Australia will become a Virginia component supplier.
AUKUS class will use US/Australian tactical information system and VPT's/VPMs for compatibility with US weapons
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 01:09
  #1279 (permalink)  
 
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If anyone wants to kill an hour?


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Old 14th Mar 2023, 01:57
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Er, exactly what is in this for the UK?
The UK actually becomes an Indo-Pacific player with minimal investment.
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