Was he Correct in Speaking Out.

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by rattman

Unless the american military is drastically different from pretty much every other military in the world you cant just resign and walk away when it suits you

What we taught our junior officers who augmented from the reserves into the regulars was this little adage:
You serve at the pleasure of the president. (While strictly true, a bit of an exaggeration for anyone below flag rank)
When you put in your letter, as I did (uh, well over a decade ago) you are requesting to retire from active duty.
That request can be honored, refused, deferred, or expedited based on the Needs of the Navy.
(More generally, the Needs of the Service)

Meanwhile, General Milley - who may well have committed treason when he had unauthorized communications with his Chinese counterpart while Trump was his Commander in Chief - just threw Biden under the bus with his congressional testimony today.

I've disappointed in how the General has presented himself, and disgusted with he did in re private talks with the Chinese.
If he's answering questions to Congress and is under oath, his various remarks 'throwing President Biden under the bus' is in the line of duty.
The Marine LTC in question took it upon himself to get involved in politics in an assignment that was not in the political realm.
He says he's ready for the consequences of his actions.

Just when I think my confidence in our leaders couldn't get any lower...

I hate to say this, but I think it gets worse before it gets better.

In a related note, regarding a Naval Officer / Naval Aviator speaking out and getting slammed for it,
interesting article on the CO of the Roosevelt and that COVID thing here.
For your consideration.

[tdracer]

Looks like the he got off relatively light:

Now, the court-martial is over, and the results are somewhat surprising. Most thought the judge, Col. Glen Hines, would throw the book at him, as covering for the failures of military leadership has become a common occurrence. Yet, Scheller was given a fairly light sentence, which included a letter of reprimand and a forfeiture of $5,000 pay over the course of a single month. Further, the judge blasted command for the pre-trial detention and for leaking records to try to make the defendant look bad.
<snip>
Scheller will now be honorably discharged and enter into civilian life, which was apparently his goal anyway, given his disgust with command.

Marine Who Was Imprisoned for Speaking Against Afghanistan Incompetence Receives Surprise Sentence – RedState

I did think throwing him in the brig was somewhat over the top.

[ORAC]

Schiller will now be honorably discharged and enter into civilian life, which was apparently his goal anyway, given his disgust with command.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/15/polit...sm/index.html…..

Scheller has yet to receive his characterization of discharge. As a part of the plea deal, he will likely receive either an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions. The characterization of discharge will be decided by the secretary of the Navy, the military judge said in court on Thursday.

If the secretary of the Navy decides to give Scheller a discharge below general under honorable conditions, Scheller will then want the characterization of discharge to be forwarded to a board of inquiry, which is made up of Marines who are superior to Scheller. Scheller said he would only ask for a board of inquiry if the secretary of the Navy gives Scheller a discharge outside of the two listed in the plea deal.

Scheller's characterization of discharge is significant because it will impact whether or not he receives other military benefits after resigning from the Marine Corps. If he receives an honorable discharge, he will be eligible for benefits, but if he receives any discharge less than that, he stands to lose some military benefits…..

[West Coast]

Well, that didn’t take too terribly long.


https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...Q-yV2aBiWZ8SoM

[PICKS135]

Point No10 should apply to forces worldwide

[Chugalug2]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50

I hate to say this, but I think it gets worse before it gets better.

In a related note, regarding a Naval Officer / Naval Aviator speaking out and getting slammed for it,
interesting article on the CO of the Roosevelt and that COVID thing here.
For your consideration.

L50, thanks for the link. I see connections between the two cases despite one SO being punished for doing his best for his subordinates with zero support from above. The other of course decided on ploughing a lonely furrow, always a dubious exercise in the military. Nevertheless, both men were punished by their CoC, in my view, having been let down by that same CoC. This rings bells on this side of the pond. The 'unspeakable enemies of the state' earning a crust from our dear Chinese friends were well known to be doing so and not a word said by the RAF leadership until the media saw a story that would simply run and run. Perhaps if the leadership had been less interested in catering to the media woke world and more interested in the RAF's fighting efficiency it would have addressed the reasons why it lost trained and experienced FJ pilots to train the PLAAF. Perhaps if the RAF leadership had simply done its duty it could have been a win-win? As usual the subordinates pay the cost of poor leadership. Perhaps time that the leadership started paying the costs as well?

Thread drift? Wrong thread even? I would counter not, but you pays your money and makes your choice, just as these two SOs did.

[T28B]

Originally Posted by Chugalug2

As usual the subordinates pay the cost of poor leadership. Perhaps time that the leadership started paying the costs as well?

Thread drift? Wrong thread even? I would counter not, but you pays your money and makes your choice, just as these two SOs did.

You are on topic enough, and, as an aside, I found your post to be an intriguing bridge between the two related topics.

[SASless]

Now that this has all played out and we see how the cards were played....I wonder what the real lessons are that should be applied.

Having served two tours in combat flying Chinooks in Vietnam and now having the benefit of time and revelations by the many involved in the decisions and policies ....political and military.....I have a much better understanding of that disastrous period....and what followed.

Some good....some not good happened.

One thing that did not change is the way our Senior Leaders are selected, groomed, and promoted.

We went to an all. volunteer military and other changes have been made due to social pressures....and I am not sure those have had a positive effect in our fielding a battle ready military.

We saw a very long involvement in Vietnam....followed by other misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan that lasted way too long each....extracting a terrible cost in Lives,Limbs, and national treasure.

Several Authors have provided us with excellent analysis of strategy and tactics from the Vietnam days that it seems our current Senior Military Leadership are loathe to endorse preferring to go the "Woke" route to gain favor by their Civilian Masters.

Westmoreland's strategy of attrition warfare stands out as one of those decisions that was patently stupid in my view.....trading American Lives for Vietnamese Lives in what was a War of Reunification of a divided nation just does not make sense today.

I came to that realization during my second tour when I attended a briefing at our Battalion HQ.....where behind the podium was a Ball Game looking Score Board....a "Them" and "US" accounting by KIA, WIA, MIA.

Dull as I was in those days....it dawned on me that if I kept coming back on more assignments at some point I was going to be one of the ciphers marked on that Tally Board.

One month later I was....and earned a ticket home to convalesce.

The folks running the show got promoted, were given Legions of Merit and other awards....and retired with nice pensions....despite all of their failuresl

Later, we had a new crop of generals that kept telling us we were winning in Iraq and Afghanistan.....and we know how those two Wars ended.

Yet....this latest crop are not having to own up to being incompetent and have to atone for the loss of so many on both sides.

I said it earlier in this thread.....the Colonel was right in what he said but wrong for the way he went about it....and as I forecast he paid a dear price for it.

We need more like the Colonel.

He is not the first Marine to speak out.....read up on General Smedley Butler USMC....and his views on War.

One quote"

“To summarize: Three steps must be taken to smash the war racket.

1. We must take the profit out of war.

2. We must permit the youth of the land who would bear arms to decide whether or not there should be war.

3. We must limit our military forces to home defense purposes.”

― Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier