'The U.S.A has your back'...what does that mean?
Nutty.......genuine question. How did France help out? I was under the impression it was quite the opposite but happy to be corrected. Apologies for thread drift by the way.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Nutty.......genuine question. How did France help out? I was under the impression it was quite the opposite but happy to be corrected. Apologies for thread drift by the way.
Thwy provided the UK with full specifications and intel on the aircraft and weapons they’d sold to the Argentinian Air Force and provided aggressor training to the Fleet as it transited south through the Bay of Biscay and the use of French bases in Africa for resupply. However they also had a team in Argentine providing contract support to Argentina…
C’est la guerre…
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war...lands-war.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17256975
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17256975
I seem to remember they did some air to air training with types that we would meet for real.
some fascinating additions
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/21-...g-harrier-809/
Last edited by NutLoose; 24th Aug 2021 at 22:01.
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Read a history book???
Actually, it depends on who wrote that history book, one reads. And how actively one attempts to read books from different countries' historians and who finances those published history books and how much time and money one has to read those books. Not an easy task. The more i read, the less i am convinced that any real truth is actually available to us plebs.
As for Americans coming "to your aid"
If there were not loads of money to have been made, they, the US government, would not have "bothered." In the USA, the number of Russian (and other countries') soldiers killed in WW2 is very seldom mentioned. Many documents regarding WW2 are still kept away from public eyes, under the secrets acts, most likely due to family trees still protecting their names.
As for "how poorly" the Afghanistan evacuation is being run, when one is honest and considers how difficult it can be to arrange ANYTHING that involves so many different people with different agendas, (or should thar be, agendae) one might be less quick to condemn the poor sods that are forced to do what the various high country leaders delegate to them, then rush off in their limos to their posh dinners and vacations.
As for Americans coming "to your aid"
If there were not loads of money to have been made, they, the US government, would not have "bothered." In the USA, the number of Russian (and other countries') soldiers killed in WW2 is very seldom mentioned. Many documents regarding WW2 are still kept away from public eyes, under the secrets acts, most likely due to family trees still protecting their names.
As for "how poorly" the Afghanistan evacuation is being run, when one is honest and considers how difficult it can be to arrange ANYTHING that involves so many different people with different agendas, (or should thar be, agendae) one might be less quick to condemn the poor sods that are forced to do what the various high country leaders delegate to them, then rush off in their limos to their posh dinners and vacations.
Last edited by 70 Mustang; 25th Aug 2021 at 05:35.
Without the german declaration of war it is likely that the U.S. would not have joined the war in western europe and would've gone full speed to Japan.
Additionally, the war on eastern front started to turn its tide for the soviets. Third reich was too far and too wide to keep the momentum once the Soviet factories were up and running.
So, Hitler had already abandoned the idea of invading UK, and were beginning to loose at eastern front. It is likely that UK would've survived, but it is a whole different story what would've become of germany and france.
To make a point: it is your view that U.S. "bothered to aid others", from other point of view U.S. reacted to the german declaration of war leading to (at least) unlimited submarine war in the atlantic against U.S. vessels (needs reaction).
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...all from Harrier 809 if I've remembered correctly.
To find out what it means:
Checklist ,
1: Do you have lot of Oil or Lithium ?
2: Do you owe 'Murican banks a great deal of money
3: Do you pay a lot of Tax to the USA
4: Are you a true born 'Murican' Voter for the current Government (only)
If you answered no to all, then the USA likely does NOT have your back, but may fancy your shirt or coat
. .
Checklist ,
1: Do you have lot of Oil or Lithium ?
2: Do you owe 'Murican banks a great deal of money
3: Do you pay a lot of Tax to the USA
4: Are you a true born 'Murican' Voter for the current Government (only)
If you answered no to all, then the USA likely does NOT have your back, but may fancy your shirt or coat
. .
Politicians come and go, and whatever you choose to call the ‘relationship’ it has survived worse crises than this. I’m quite sure that US/UK military, intelligence and diplomatic cooperation will continue as before.
It does tend to remind me of the old Air Force saying - "Watch yer six!!"
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As an American, I can tell you we were going to leave Afghanistan all along, and should have left a decade ago. No way we could win with Pakistan harboring the insurgents within their so called "tribal" areas. The stupidity is how much we assumed the Afghans would fight the Taliban on their own. It is remarkable how quickly they laid down their arms and ran away. So if there was "cutting and running", it certainly was the Afghans. We simply could not, and, cannot believe how utterly useless they are at fighting or how short sighted we were at thinking that they would actually fight. Now, the ONLY thing I care about is the 10 to 15 thousand Americans trapped there. Having been emergency evacuated from Sanaa Yemen in the 1994 civil war, I can only tell you that American evacuation policy is horrible toward Americans and favorable to local nationals that "helped" U.S. interests. Its all just another American screw up and it matters not what political party is in power in the U.S..
Saying goes...."lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". Without the will to fight, not a damn thing can be done. We can't stay there forever sucking trillion's out of us. This is not all Biden's fault. The stupidity of our divided government arguing against itself like proud fools is destroying us. If it hasn't already.
Yes and Taiwan and Japan and the Philippines...etc..etc... Unlike Hong Kong, we don't have the excuse, "our lease is up". We will have to fight or disappear onto the "ash-heap" of history.
Saying goes...."lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". Without the will to fight, not a damn thing can be done. We can't stay there forever sucking trillion's out of us. This is not all Biden's fault. The stupidity of our divided government arguing against itself like proud fools is destroying us. If it hasn't already.
Yes and Taiwan and Japan and the Philippines...etc..etc... Unlike Hong Kong, we don't have the excuse, "our lease is up". We will have to fight or disappear onto the "ash-heap" of history.
Last edited by XXmet; 26th Aug 2021 at 04:06.
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Don't forget plenty of moral support. The fascist Argentine government of the day was dreaming dreams of grandeur to think that the Brits wouldn't come kick their pimple spotted butts for invading.
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Respectfully, I question the veracity of your comment. "Assumptions" is all that is left. Our government is, and, has been, in turmoil for many years and over several changes in party control. It seems our "unity" is all but destroyed. Arguments, rather than logical debate, taken to the extreme for the stupidest of reasons has made decision making impossible. Firm policy creation is all but non-existent, changing with the winds of political non-consensus. The very reason this horror is happening in Afghanistan is because of our lack of political unity for decades. This hateful, divisive, vindictive political disease has permeated our body politic down to the local levels. Sadly, I see our destruction, either because of our weakened state taken advantage of by outside belligerent powers, or from within by our own ignorant, willful people. Too many powerful influences affecting government now. Government cannot rationalize anymore. So nothing rational can come from it.
Some of you folks would do better if you used much smaller brushes when you go to painting other folks.
Please also slow down and consider that you are talking about a government under the control of a less than popularly elected President.
Many of us do not care for him, his agenda, his ability or his fitness for office....and we damn sure do not approve of this debacle we see going on in Afghanistan.
The US Military exactly as the British Military receives its orders from a singular command authority and does its best to carry out those orders...even if they do not agree with them or approve of them.....that is just how it goes.
We see a monumental failure going on....point your finger where you wish....but do so in a manner that only the culpable are your targets.
Our Troops are carrying out the mission they were assigned on very short notice....under the Rules of Engagement and limitations placed upon them by their Command Authority.....in our system.....the President.....in this case.....Joe Biden.
Our Joint Chiefs are advisors.....not Commanders....that authority falls to the Operational Commanders.
I pray that one day the actual truth comes out that genuinely informs us of how this all came to be....and why so m any are going to suffer so badly because of all of this.
I am a Vietnam Veteran....and my Heart breaks for all of those who have fought and paid such a dear price for that service in Afghanistan....from all the Militaries that served there.
This is not the way it should have ended. We can debate why and how it began....but that is irrelevant today. How it is ending is what we should focus upon.
Just as Vietnam Veterans worked to ensure no other generation of Veteran should be treated as we were.....I also encourage Iraq and Aftghanistan Veterans to stand tall and be proud of their service during very difficult times....again....from all of the Militaries that have served in those Wars.
They did us all proud by their service....and have set the standard for those that shall follow them in the future.
Damn the politicians all you want....they deserve it....but do not sully those who bearded the Dragon in his Den....that just is not acceptable and should be chastised whenever encountered.
As long as we let old men send young men off to die in Wars of their making.....with no danger to themselves....we shall. continue to see such sad outcomes.
Joe Biden with fifty years in politics and a reputation for no grasp of foreign policy and a proven record of not caring for promises made to those who stand with us.....is the exact wrong Man in the wrong Office at exactly the wrong time.
He turned his back on the Vietnamese when that happened and now we see him doing the same thing to the Afghans.
I hope every person that voted for him or thought him the right person for the most powerful Office in the World.....looks themselves in the mirror every morning and thinks about that when they speak of the tragedy unfolding for Tens of Thousands of people....Men, Women, and Children.....in Afghanistan.
You were wrong then....and you are wrong today if you refuse to admit that to yourself.
Joe Biden and his Radical Ideologues in his Administration are destroying the Country and bringing immeasurable hardships upon its People.....the World has Three and a Half more Years to suffer through this Administration.
A lot of you asked for it.....now you got it....I hope you enjoy it.....because all of us are going to be paying for it some way or another .
We shall, just as assuredly as the people of Afghanistan are going to be doing as a result of Joe Biden's decisions.
Please also slow down and consider that you are talking about a government under the control of a less than popularly elected President.
Many of us do not care for him, his agenda, his ability or his fitness for office....and we damn sure do not approve of this debacle we see going on in Afghanistan.
The US Military exactly as the British Military receives its orders from a singular command authority and does its best to carry out those orders...even if they do not agree with them or approve of them.....that is just how it goes.
We see a monumental failure going on....point your finger where you wish....but do so in a manner that only the culpable are your targets.
Our Troops are carrying out the mission they were assigned on very short notice....under the Rules of Engagement and limitations placed upon them by their Command Authority.....in our system.....the President.....in this case.....Joe Biden.
Our Joint Chiefs are advisors.....not Commanders....that authority falls to the Operational Commanders.
I pray that one day the actual truth comes out that genuinely informs us of how this all came to be....and why so m any are going to suffer so badly because of all of this.
I am a Vietnam Veteran....and my Heart breaks for all of those who have fought and paid such a dear price for that service in Afghanistan....from all the Militaries that served there.
This is not the way it should have ended. We can debate why and how it began....but that is irrelevant today. How it is ending is what we should focus upon.
Just as Vietnam Veterans worked to ensure no other generation of Veteran should be treated as we were.....I also encourage Iraq and Aftghanistan Veterans to stand tall and be proud of their service during very difficult times....again....from all of the Militaries that have served in those Wars.
They did us all proud by their service....and have set the standard for those that shall follow them in the future.
Damn the politicians all you want....they deserve it....but do not sully those who bearded the Dragon in his Den....that just is not acceptable and should be chastised whenever encountered.
As long as we let old men send young men off to die in Wars of their making.....with no danger to themselves....we shall. continue to see such sad outcomes.
Joe Biden with fifty years in politics and a reputation for no grasp of foreign policy and a proven record of not caring for promises made to those who stand with us.....is the exact wrong Man in the wrong Office at exactly the wrong time.
He turned his back on the Vietnamese when that happened and now we see him doing the same thing to the Afghans.
I hope every person that voted for him or thought him the right person for the most powerful Office in the World.....looks themselves in the mirror every morning and thinks about that when they speak of the tragedy unfolding for Tens of Thousands of people....Men, Women, and Children.....in Afghanistan.
You were wrong then....and you are wrong today if you refuse to admit that to yourself.
Joe Biden and his Radical Ideologues in his Administration are destroying the Country and bringing immeasurable hardships upon its People.....the World has Three and a Half more Years to suffer through this Administration.
A lot of you asked for it.....now you got it....I hope you enjoy it.....because all of us are going to be paying for it some way or another .
We shall, just as assuredly as the people of Afghanistan are going to be doing as a result of Joe Biden's decisions.
Salute!
Thx, SAS, I too have a lotta disappointment to share, regardless of which polytickle party won the last election.
On my third tour, our squad covered the Saigon evac, and this CF is nothing like that day. My closure to those times was leading the last flight of fighter-bombers out of the whole damned war in December 1975. So I have no nightmares, just a case of sorrow now and then when I remember a lost comrade.
Good to see a "never Trumper" here and then a few folks from other countries taking issue.
Gums sends...
Thx, SAS, I too have a lotta disappointment to share, regardless of which polytickle party won the last election.
On my third tour, our squad covered the Saigon evac, and this CF is nothing like that day. My closure to those times was leading the last flight of fighter-bombers out of the whole damned war in December 1975. So I have no nightmares, just a case of sorrow now and then when I remember a lost comrade.
Good to see a "never Trumper" here and then a few folks from other countries taking issue.
Gums sends...
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The ones I feel for are the young in Afghanistan, for 20 years those reaching adulthood in the likes of Kabul will have known and lived a lifestyle alien to their elders, far removed from what went on before and suddenly their lives are being stripped from them.
Their western dress, freedom, education, literature, lifestyles, music and films they will have known all their lives are about to be torn out from under them in the flick of a switch, to be replaced by the will of the few armed religious nutters who are a tiny part of the population.
The question is where does it go from now, will the young see them for what they are and resist? I would imagine a lot of weapons etc may have been squirrelled away by ex military etc knowing what their fate me be. In a way reports that the Taliban have been requesting in villages etc that those that have weapons hand them over shows it’s possibly something the fear, an uprising against their authority.
Their western dress, freedom, education, literature, lifestyles, music and films they will have known all their lives are about to be torn out from under them in the flick of a switch, to be replaced by the will of the few armed religious nutters who are a tiny part of the population.
The question is where does it go from now, will the young see them for what they are and resist? I would imagine a lot of weapons etc may have been squirrelled away by ex military etc knowing what their fate me be. In a way reports that the Taliban have been requesting in villages etc that those that have weapons hand them over shows it’s possibly something the fear, an uprising against their authority.
Last edited by NutLoose; 26th Aug 2021 at 02:01.